Setting up a muzzleloader for Colorado elk

Mud Farm

New Member
Aug 18, 2014
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I'm new to muzzleloaders in general but a pretty decent rifle shooter. Planning on a Colorado muzzleloader elk hunt this year with a friend very familiar with the area. I bought a CVA Accura VR with 27" Bergara nitride barrel. It came with fiber optic sights. I would like to get good groups from a bench at 200 yards so I'm confident for a <150 yard shot in the field. I did some searching and saw several different recommended sight changes, See All, ghost rings, etc. I'll be contacting Thor to get a sizing pack to determine what exact size works best in my gun. Any other recommendations to start out with? I plan to leave it Colorado compliant at all times and use the same setup for our Wisconsin muzzleloader season.

Thanks in advance!
 

Prerylyon

Veteran member
Apr 25, 2016
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Cedar Rapids, IA
Thanks for posting this thread; it may be a completely unrealistic plan 'b' option for me since I've got no points in CO, but I've been mulling over whether I'd want to try a muzzy hunt for elk someday in CO.

I have an older inline I grabbed years ago at an auction. Its a TC Thunderhawk .54 with middle of the road twist rate. I think with open sights and a full bore conical I should be street legal in CO, but am interested in how everyone tricks their muzzys out within the limits of the law.

Regards,

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CoHiCntry

Veteran member
Mar 31, 2011
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Colorado Mountains
I just use the fiber optic sights on my muzzleloaders. Most of my muzzleloader shots are well under 100 yds. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot to 150 yds. on a broad side elk unaware of my presence that's standing still. So I personally wouldn't worry about different sights unless your eyes aren't great. YMMV...

Blackhorn powder and Thor bullets seem to be the most popular load with the best results if it works in your gun. Some CVA's didn't used to have a breech plug that could handle Blackhorn. That might have changed, you would need to look. Nothing wrong with T7 powder either.

As far as "tricking" out your muzzleloader... I leave that to the guy's with flat brimmed hats :cool:
 

Prerylyon

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Apr 25, 2016
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You guys think that .54 Thunderhawk adequate? I shoot .44 pistol bullets in sabots for deer here in Iowa thru it. I know sabots aren't allowed in CO for elk. I think back when I was setting it up, the Hornady Great Plains full bore conical shot decent thru it-have to check the grain size in my notebook-I know some of those conicals were discontinued in different sizes. .54 makes a big hole. But accuracy is also important.

Regards,

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CoHiCntry

Veteran member
Mar 31, 2011
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Colorado Mountains
You guys think that .54 Thunderhawk adequate? I shoot .44 pistol bullets in sabots for deer here in Iowa thru it. I know sabots aren't allowed in CO for elk. I think back when I was setting it up, the Hornady Great Plains full bore conical shot decent thru it-have to check the grain size in my notebook-I know some of those conicals were discontinued in different sizes. .54 makes a big hole. But accuracy is also important.

Regards,

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I'm sure it would be adequate. I use the 425 grain Great Plains conicals with a wonder wod and 80 grains of T7 powder and am getting a 2.5" group at 100 yards using open sights. It works...

IMG-20170925-184808106-HDR.jpg
 
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Prerylyon

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Apr 25, 2016
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Good to hear of your success with the Great Plains; and, will look into that Thor bullet as well. Just need to make sure whatever is legal also shoots decent out the gun.

My Thunderhawk has an odd twist rate - don't remember it off the top of my head, but its not as fast as the 2nd gen or later muzzys designed mostly for for sabots, nor is it as slow as some of more historical Hawkens and the like. It does well with a white plastic sabot and a Sierra .44 bullet and it liked the Great Plains full bore .54 as well. I have the loads written down in my notebook.

I guess I will have to look into it, but are there any muzzy cow tags a non res guy could expect to pull in CO?

Regards,

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JimP

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Mar 28, 2016
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I will also suggest the Thor. Get a sample kit and find which one fits the barrel. I however found that Pyrodex was the best powder for mine.

My last bull was shot with a 300 grain Thor over 90 grains of Pyrodex at 120 yards. I had 2 complete pass through shots and one that ended up on the far side hide. He was dead on the first shot but my philosophy with elk is if they are still stand keep shooting.
 

Umpqua Hunter

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May 26, 2011
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This comes from my 30+ years of trial and error and thousands of dollars in muzzleloaders and supplies that often left me disappointed. I have consistently shot sub 2 MOA groups down to 0.8 MOA groups at 100 yards with this setup. I've hunted a full week on the original load in wet conditions and it fires reliably. My last buck was taken at 190 yards.

Glean whatever is helpful.

Rifle: Knight DISC Extreme, 50 caliber. I believe it's Green Mountain barrel is the best conical bullet barrel on the market today. I own three of them now for family hunts with my kids. I use this muzzy in Oregon with Western conversion kit and Colorado with standard 209 primer bolt kit. I was once told conical barrels have "deep lands and gloves". I have no way to characterize that but I am sold on these barrels.

Rear Sight: Williams FP peep, very rugged, easy to adjust, can switch out peep apertures depending on lighting. Use as fine of a peep as you can get away with under current lighting conditions.

Front Sight: XS Sights - White Line Patridge. XS will send you a dummy plastic sight. With your load, you trim the plastic blade until you determine the correct length. You can then order the permanent blade in 0.05" height increments. This is a heavy duty rugged sight with a fine white line on it. You aim off the TOP flat of the sight. For load development and target practice, I use a 2" fluorescent orange sticker as the point I aim at at 100 yards. I cover the bottom half of this with this front sight. This gives me a very accurate point of aim. I prefer this sighting technique to a bead that will cover several MOA at 100 yards. I also really don't like fiber optics as they give you a hazy aiming point and inconsistent sight picture depending on lighting.

Bullet: No Excuses, 50 caliber, 460 grain. Order these online from the manufacturer. This is a LONG HEAVY bullet. Realize that even in centerfire long range rifles, long heavy bullets are the bullet of choice for higher ballistic coefficients and better energy retention at range. These bullets are precision die sized after casting which gives you a consistent diameter. One other piece, the vast majority of muzzy barrels today have fast twist rates suited for sabots. Just like in centerfires, fast twist barrels like long heavy bullets. The longer bullets also give you a longer area of engagement of the soft lead to the rifling.

http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/shop/

Vegetable Fiber Wads: Two 0.06" thick "vegetable fiber wads". These are loaded after the powder and before the bullet. They prevent flame scoring of the bullet and have cut my groups noticeably.

Powder: With a 209 ignition, there is no better powder on the market than Blackhorn 209. It burns clean and is far less corrosive than other blackpowder substitutes. This lets you hunt on a fouled barrel for over a week without corrosion issues. [Note: I lost a stainless barrel once by not cleaning the residue for 6+ months].

Blackhorn 209, 80-85 grains by volume (56 to 59.5 grains by weight). Multiply the volume measurement by 0.7 to determine the weight (the weight is always a smaller number than the volume!) Don't try to get a hotter load with more powder because conicals do not like to be loaded hot. If a conical is loaded too hot it will cause the lead to strip from the rifling, affecting accuracy. Don't worry about energy with this load, this will have all the punch you need. It hits like a freight train. It drove through my Colorado bull lengthwise.

Powder Vials: I don't like speed loaders since the ones Ive used can let water get to the powder. I buy my vials off of eBay. There is a seller who goes by “jesuslives2saveyou” that sells an excellent vial and has sold them for years. I get the “10 ml” size which is just right for holding powder.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blackhorn-209-Muzzleloader-Powder-Compatible-Charge-Tubes-25-Speedloader-Vials/181908788174?epid=1447231304&hash=item2a5a9bd3ce:g:N~EAAMXQVT9TAiNP

Primer: Fiocchi 209. These are a "softer" 209 primer that reliably ignites the powder. If the 209 primer is too hot the bullet can be pushed off its seating before the powder ignites.

Fouled Barrel: I always hunt on a barrel that has had at least one shot fired through it after cleaning. I've found my accuracy most repeatable after that.

Waterproofing: There are four paths for water to affect your load, some of these cannot be done on a 209 primer setup:

Barrel Waterproofing: Two strips of electrical tape over the muzzle with about 50% overlap. A couple wraps around the barrel to secure it. I use good stuff like Scotch 33.

Nipple Waterproofing (#11 caps): Use a Treso (#11-50-01) nipple and a tight fitting RWS cap. It should be somewhat difficult to seat requiring you to "swage" the cap on to the nipple with some force. These are target nipples and have a small flame path. For hunting, I open the original 0.028" diameter of flame path up VERY slightly to 0.031". That is only 0.003" (three one thousandths of an inch!!) DISCLAIMER: ENLARGING A FLAME PATH EXCESSIVELY WILL ALLOW EXCESSIVE BLOWBACK IN THE DIRECTION OF YOUR FACE THAT CAN BE HAZARDOUS!!!

Nipple Thread Waterproofing (#11 caps): I used Makron blue primer sealer for Midway on the nipple threads to prevent water intrusion.

Breach Plug Thread Waterproofing: Knight breech plug grease. [Note: In my 45 caliber "sabotless" Remington/Brux muzzy (AZ legal), I use a few wraps of teflon tape on the breech plug. Some guys like this with Knights as well.]
 
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Prerylyon

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Apr 25, 2016
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Wow Umpqua; thanks for sharing! [emoji6]

Appreciate your advice for stuff to try if I decide to dial something in for black powder elk.

Regards,

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Umpqua Hunter

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May 26, 2011
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So with all of that I said above, it got me thinking.....are copper jacketed bullets legal in Colorado? Not in a sabot, just a full bore jacked bullet? If so my Remington/Brux 45 caliber sabotless muzzy would be an unreal Colorado set-up. It shoots a 344 grain Kinetic BOMB bullet with sub 1/2 MOA accuracy at 300 yards (scoped). It uses 209 primers (legal) and 100 grains by WEIGHT of BH209 (legal). It has the energy to kill an elk at 500+ yards. I built it for Arizona, New Mexico and Utah, but if I fit it with open sights I am wondering if it would be Colorado and Nevada legal.
 

Colorado Cowboy

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Jun 8, 2011
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Colorado bans sabots, does not say a word about jacketed bullets. Most of the people I know who M/L hunt here use jacketed(including my neighbor who is a P&W Officer!
 

Blackdawg

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Dec 25, 2014
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Umpqua, I have cooked up a plan with my CVA to switch from #11 to 209 primers and change from Blackhorn to Pyrodex rx,,, is there a bullet that you could recommend as a one and done for across the board in multiple states with varying regulations?


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DH56

Active Member
Jan 17, 2014
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Northern, Ohio
Lots of good solid information there that I can attest to as well-nice job UH. After shooting many different mfg of muzzleloaders, I have settled on the TC Encore the last 10 years or so. BH209 is the real deal. I will use nothing else. Will have to try the Vegetable Fiber wads.
 

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
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Dolores, Colorado
Veggie wads are available from Buffalo Arms. They have them in .50 cal; .030 & .060 thickness and are $20.00 per thousand. I just ordered 1m of the .50/.060, going to try them.

I use veggie wads in my black powder shotgun loads for cowboy action shooting.
 

Mud Farm

New Member
Aug 18, 2014
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Wisconsin
Wow, a lot of info to take in. Thanks for all the great advice. I better get ordering supplies and get to the range. Freezing rain right now in WI :(
 

ore hunter

Very Active Member
Jul 25, 2014
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Ive had good luck over the years with 425 gp conicals,,90 grains 777 in my lyman.54 with the hunter barrel 1 in 32 twist.work your load up from lower grainage until your groups start to spread then back it back off 5-10 grains...200 yrds is a long shot for sure,,be aware of your bullet drop and windage,,but it can be done,,I try not to shoot animals beyond 150 though if I can,,,Ive gotten 28" of drop at 250 though,,it starts dropping fast when it gets out there.