Penalty for hunting in wilderness as a non resedent?

[NDHunter]

In my opinion, it's a silly law that sucks for non residents. With that being said, I'm a firm believer in not making a bad situation worse. I think if some non residents made a huge stink about this, the WYOGA could bring some proposals to make it even worse for NR's. Things like the bill to allot more tags in the special draw. And who knows what else they could dream up. NR's will never really have much "say" when it comes to the rules that apply to them. The general tag is still a very good tag, even if you can't go in the wilderness.

 

[alaska2go]

And I..able to hunt the elusive WY wilderness as a Resident...cant go up to Alaska and hunt sheep, goat or grizzlies without a guide..Same story, different state.

yep but that is a specific animal that the state manage. You can go into any wilderness area in AK that is federally owned. Big difference BUD !

 

[Alabama]

I did not mean to offend you. There are a lot of threads going around lately where a lot of people feel they deserve things. Like more tags, and more access. You are right, if the law applied to residents. We would feel different. But it doesn't. I live within an hour of 3 wilderness areas. I have spent a total of 0 days hunting them. Just cause it's a wilderness area, does not mean it's better hunting. If you want to hunt any of the wilderness areas near me, I would be happy to be the resident guide for you. I'm on this forum to help people.

I'm calling dibbs on that offer ssliger! If I ever draw lol.

 

[Alabama]

yep but that is a specific animal that the state manage. You can go into any wilderness area in AK that is federally owned. Big difference BUD !

You can go into the wilderness in WY, just not hunt big game without a guide.

AK: No Sheep, Mountain Goat or Grizzly
WY: No Big Game

Not trying to argue but seems very similar to me.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I don't like this law but to take it to the extreme, Wyoming COULD decide to not give any deer or elk tags to non-residents. Or limit non-resident tags to 5%, like Oregon does.

Hey bdan, no worries about Non-Residents not being able to hunt Big or Trophy game in Wyoming. Too many Ranchers and Outfitters here that have cronies in the Legislature for that to ever happen. There are however, states around Wyoming where Non-Residents can't hunt Elk, Sheep, Goats, etc. They are saved for Residents only.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Yep, just wait....... If this passes its going to cost more to hunt there.

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2015/Introduced/HB0149.pdf

There you go Don, the Wyoming legislature proposing laws after being influenced by Outfitters/Ranchers that benefit by the proposed laws. Stinks to high heaven...welcome to the Wyoming Government "Good Old Boy" club!

 

[kstitz]

I don't like this law but to take it to the extreme, Wyoming COULD decide to not give any deer or elk tags to non-residents. Or limit non-resident tags to 5%, like Oregon does.

They will never do this because the outfitters rely on NR hunters.

 

[kstitz]

I did not mean to offend you. There are a lot of threads going around lately where a lot of people feel they deserve things. Like more tags, and more access. You are right, if the law applied to residents. We would feel different. But it doesn't. I live within an hour of 3 wilderness areas. I have spent a total of 0 days hunting them. Just cause it's a wilderness area, does not mean it's better hunting. If you want to hunt any of the wilderness areas near me, I would be happy to be the resident guide for you. I'm on this forum to help people.


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No big deal and I appriciate the offer but I do not think you want to spend a week in the wildernes with me and not be hunting. I am surprised how many residents such as yourself do not hunt the wilderness. The area I hunted has an adjacent NF that is full of atv trails, by the time I hunted it Oct 12 all of the elk had been pushed on to the Wilderness. I am pretty sure I have the resident think covered for this season. If not I am going to try and find an area that is only accessable by foot or horse. Hearing a 4 wheeler when I am hunting just ruins the whole experience for me.

What is the reason you do not hunt the wilderness?

 

[Apparition]

The main reason I like to hunt wilderness areas, for the most part, I dont have to worry about anyone coming in from the other side. When I hunted the Frank Church and Selway, I knew with almost 100 percent certainty that there would be no one in the drainage I was hunting, and no one coming in from another road, because there wasnt another road for 90 miles. Now I understand that those 2 wilderness are extremely large, however from what Im seeing in some units wyoming, I cant get more than 2 or 3 miles away from any road. I consider 2 miles to be the magic number, once you hump in that far, you lose 98 percent of the on foot hunters.

 

[ssliger]

No big deal and I appriciate the offer but I do not think you want to spend a week in the wildernes with me and not be hunting. I am surprised how many residents such as yourself do not hunt the wilderness. The area I hunted has an adjacent NF that is full of atv trails, by the time I hunted it Oct 12 all of the elk had been pushed on to the Wilderness. I am pretty sure I have the resident think covered for this season. If not I am going to try and find an area that is only accessable by foot or horse. Hearing a 4 wheeler when I am hunting just ruins the whole experience for me.

What is the reason you do not hunt the wilderness?

It's because I started hunting archery. I grew up in Rock Springs WY and did not hunt elk very much as a kid. When we did it was in the units south of Rock Springs. The elk hunting there is awesome, but its completely different than hunting heavily forested mountains. Like where I live now. When I started getting into hunting elk near my home in Laramie, I sucked at it. I would just pick spots and walk and walk and walk, and not see jack. Like you said once the bullets start flying the elk disappear. I have spent the last couple years and focused on archery and the difference is night and day, I get into elk every time I go out. Although this past fall, dealing with other people, I might start learning the wilderness areas near me.

 

[kstitz]

It's because I started hunting archery. I grew up in Rock Springs WY and did not hunt elk very much as a kid. When we did it was in the units south of Rock Springs. The elk hunting there is awesome, but its completely different than hunting heavily forested mountains. Like where I live now. When I started getting into hunting elk near my home in Laramie, I sucked at it. I would just pick spots and walk and walk and walk, and not see jack. Like you said once the bullets start flying the elk disappear. I have spent the last couple years and focused on archery and the difference is night and day, I get into elk every time I go out. Although this past fall, dealing with other people, I might start learning the wilderness areas near me.

That makes sense. I have not hunted archery but I am certain it has little in common with later season rifle hunting. I am considering a muzzleloader hunt in CO in the next couple of years.

I am really more interested in the quality of the hunt then killing a giant bull. Of course my goal is to kill big bull every time I go out, but I really enjoy being out there with few to no hunters. The unit we hunted is a real pita to get to the wilderness, but once you are there the hunting is incredible.

 

[gonhunting247]

I agree that the reason for the law seems kind of silly, but WY offers tons of opportunity for the non-resident. Almost all the other states limit opportunity to hunt in certain areas too though! They just go about it a different way, by limiting tags(or not offering any) to only specific GMU's or applying % quotas. Like I stated above the safety reason seems a little bit of a stretch and as a holder of 12 moose points, it is a little frustrating, but I think every state limits non-resident take and looks out for the outfitter industry in one way or the other.
As a DIY only hunter I'm just super thankful for all the public land opportunities that are still available all over the west!

 

[Bonecollector]

Lets be honest, the 4-5 month hunting seasaon is all some of these state areas have....thus it's being leveraged anyway they can.
Yeah, I don't like it, but I still must play by the rules. And at least there ARE options.

 

[stevevan]

I think, as least in my perspective, that we're getting away from the focus of this thread. I believe most everybody doesn't have a big issue with license allocations as it is easy that licenses would be under the jurisdiction of the state since constitutionally this have the RIGHT to manage the wildlife within their state. Of course the exception is migratory game such as waterfowl, doves, etc. What we're discussing here is the problem of access which restricts/denies a certain group from participating in a legal activity. To compound the argument is the fact that the state is practicing restriction by law on federal lands which is administer through funds not just by the Wyoming folks but also the taxpayers in the other 49 states of this great country. I wish some group with the financial ability, such as Safari Club who fights for hunters rights, would pick-up the battle. Even RMEF just spent a bunch of $ to gain access by buying easements in Montana for the hunting populace that didn't previously have an opportunity to access a big chunk of National Forest It seems Wyoming is not presently totally committed to the idea of promoting hunting opportunity as is the present thought trend nationally. Yet, they (Wyo.) G&F will spend time, effort, and $ to secure access (walkin areas) on private property. Go figure, except the walk-in areas benefit both residents and nonresidents. I suppose this could be the difference where the wilderness restrictions only apply to the nonresident hunter. I'll probably never to get to hunt the wilderness areas of Wyoming again since I've out of state and am now a nonresident. That and the reality that I'm not as young and fit as I was when I did hunt and enjoy the wilderness areas. My problem with the heart burn created by this law is that the choice to hunt, that which I believe I should have a right to do so, is denied. After all, that's what this nation is built upon, the freedoms of choice.

 

[gonhunting247]

I feel your pain and get the frustration. I also get that it doesn't make sense, but they are not restricting access they are restricting a hunting opportunity to non-residents, which every state does in one way or the other.

I think, as least in my perspective, that we're getting away from the focus of this thread. I believe most everybody doesn't have a big issue with license allocations as it is easy that licenses would be under the jurisdiction of the state since constitutionally this have the RIGHT to manage the wildlife within their state. Of course the exception is migratory game such as waterfowl, doves, etc. What we're discussing here is the problem of access which restricts/denies a certain group from participating in a legal activity. To compound the argument is the fact that the state is practicing restriction by law on federal lands which is administer through funds not just by the Wyoming folks but also the taxpayers in the other 49 states of this great country. I wish some group with the financial ability, such as Safari Club who fights for hunters rights, would pick-up the battle. Even RMEF just spent a bunch of $ to gain access by buying easements in Montana for the hunting populace that didn't previously have an opportunity to access a big chunk of National Forest It seems Wyoming is not presently totally committed to the idea of promoting hunting opportunity as is the present thought trend nationally. Yet, they (Wyo.) G&F will spend time, effort, and $ to secure access (walkin areas) on private property. Go figure, except the walk-in areas benefit both residents and nonresidents. I suppose this could be the difference where the wilderness restrictions only apply to the nonresident hunter. I'll probably never to get to hunt the wilderness areas of Wyoming again since I've out of state and am now a nonresident. That and the reality that I'm not as young and fit as I was when I did hunt and enjoy the wilderness areas. My problem with the heart burn created by this law is that the choice to hunt, that which I believe I should have a right to do so, is denied. After all, that's what this nation is built upon, the freedoms of choice.

 

[stevevan]

I disagree with your read on the issue. I'm not restricted from the opportunity to hunt. I'm being told who and how I must do it in accordance to their terms. Once again, this is on Federal lands with $ contributed for administration by all citizens of the United States, not just Wyoming residents. I'd like to see some pressure and watch the fireworks if the Federal land management agencies, who issue permits for these commercial operations on federal lands, would deny the permit, which are PRIVLIDGES and term, to hunting outfitters with a select clientle and the rest of the nonresidents hunters are left out. Pretty nice, these wilderness outfitters have a guaranteed market. In essence saying you hunt with us and give us the money or stay away. How many other businesses have a government entity guaranteeing their market(livelihood)? And once again, this is on property the outfitters do not own, they just rent for a specified term which I believe is a permit with a maximum of 5 years before it can be reissued. The people of the U.S. own that property and I'm (all nonresident hunters) are being denied a legal activity because we possess a hunting lic. and do not want to pay someone to hunt on our property. We at least should be given the choice to use the services of an outfitter or do it on or own if that is the course we want to take. The outfitters themselves have a nondiscrimination clause written in their permits (contracts) to operate on federal lands. The State of Wyoming should get the message since with the law in question they are restricting, discriminating against, those who want a different choice on how to use the license that the State of Wyoming sells to them and forces them to use the services of a group ( hunting outfitters) they sponsor(license) and endorse.

 

[jjenness]

This issue reminds me somewhat of 2010 when MT voters did away with guaranteed Outfitter hunting licenses. The Outfitter's Assoc. raised hell, but I stated then also, who says that any particular private company should get guaranteed business from the government? It would be no different than the government allowing some other private company to have a "guaranteed" clientele, through the allocation of a certain percentage of state wide business. Correct me if I am wrong, but there still are Outfitter's operating in MT, and some of them are still doing very well for themselves. Bottom line is it is going to take the people of WY to step up and make a change if they feel like the management of the states resources are not being handled properly. And if the people in WY are happy with the way the state is doing things, well then OK, it's their state and they are the ones that live there and get to vote on their own initiatives. I can still enjoy the bountiful Federal Land out my back door here in MT.

 

[stevevan]

Well, I agree with portions of your reply. However, the description of the scenario you presented for Montana is somewhat different than what I think is happening with Wyoming's wilderness law. Yes, the state has the right to manage wildlife resources. They can do that by license allocation to manage a certain game population. My concern is that they will sell you a license and then dictate to you how you can use that license by dictating who you must hunt with. To my knowledge the federal designated wilderness areas are the only areas in Wyoming where this occurs. Anywhere else in the state you can chose to use the services of a licensed outfitter or go on your if you choose. And, once again mind you. All this takes place on property not owned or regulated under the jurisdiction of the state, the people of Wyoming. This should not be something to be voted on by the Wyoming residents. These federally managed lands are under federal jurisdiction. It's just that they fall within the states boundries. Reminder that this is the only legal activity within the Wilderness Act that the state says a non-resident can't do. I still contend that this is not a management of wildlife issue as anyone can get the license, is more of a we'll sell you a license but you must hunt with one of our Licensed Outfitters on lands we don't own or have any mandate to regulate. Sure sounds like a legal challenge to me but in reality that of course would take a ton of money and effort which is the limiting factor. My hope is that Law makers of Wyoming would realize themselves that this is a dated law and make to correction themselves. In this day and age when we're seeing hunter participation in a decline I cannot understand why any state would want a regulation to suppress hunting. Wyoming, like just about all states,, has programs such as youth hunts, hunts for the disabled, etc. to recruit people into the hunting world. To keep such an arbritary regulation such as this alive really has me confused. I guess I'm waiting for someone to explain to me any rational explanation for this law other than they're protecting a select few, the outfitters who are willing to pay huge $ for a "blue sky" business because of a guaranteed market at the expense of the American taxpayer by limiting their ability to pursue an activity(legal) on property "WE THE PEOPLE" own.

 

[Fink]

I guess I'm waiting for someone to explain to me any rational explanation for this law other than they're protecting a select few, the outfitters who are willing to pay huge $ for a "blue sky" business because of a guaranteed market at the expense of the American taxpayer by limiting their ability to pursue an activity(legal) on property "WE THE PEOPLE" own.

Nobody is going to offer you that rational explanation, because is doesn't exist. The law exists solely for outfitter welfare only, no other reason.. But, as you've alluded to several times in your last few posts, the State of Wyoming manages wildlife in the way that they see best fit, and apparently, that includes excluding non residents from the wilderness areas without having someone there to hold their hand.

The only way this gets changed is if the Wyoming residents want it changed, and I don't see that happening.

 

[kstitz]

stevevan,

I could not agree more. Just like it has nothiung to do with hunter safety it also has nothing to do ewith game management or game law enforcement. These are just htere way of covering there asses if it gets challenged in federal court. WY residents will never vote to overturn the law because they, not everyone, have the good old boy mentallity. The only way it gets changed is federal court!