Penalty for hunting in wilderness as a non resedent?

[Humblesmith]

Just a basic question.........

Is "wilderness land" and "BLM land" the same thing? Are all federal lands considered wilderness?

 

[mntnguide]

Just a basic question.........

Is "wilderness land" and "BLM land" the same thing? Are all federal lands considered wilderness?

No..Wilderness is designated...The biggest difference is.. Wilderness is an area where nothing mechanized can be used.. No chainsaw, no bike, nothing that has a mechanical gear technically...all wood must be cut by whip saw and ax..etc. Any area that is designated "wilderness" will be goverened by Forest Service, where as BLM is entirely different.

 

[CrossCreeks]

Evidently the Outfitters /Guides have strong lobbying power. I agree I do not think that the law was put into effect because of safety concerns. I would love to be able to hunt the wilderness areas without a guide but I am thankful to have the opportunity to hunt the parts of Wyoming that I do DIY !

 

[tim]

so Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Colorado, new mexico, Arizona, Washington etc all have safer wilderness areas?

come on, the law is for economic reasons only.

 

[Tim McCoy]

No..Wilderness is designated...The biggest difference is.. Wilderness is an area where nothing mechanized can be used.. No chainsaw, no bike, nothing that has a mechanical gear technically...all wood must be cut by whip saw and ax..etc. Any area that is designated "wilderness" will be goverened by Forest Service, where as BLM is entirely different.

Close, but not quite right. The BLM administers plenty of wilderness areas, subtle point, but correct. There are also so called Wilderness Study areas. You will find plenty of both in SE OR, SW ID and NW NV, as well as many other states. Usually not traditional high mountain areas. Bottom line is you better know the rules for where you are at, and it can and often does change. I have been surprised to the the legal way I can use BLM radically changed with a simple designation of a wilderness study area. Yep,
the same roads are still there, pretty good ones too. Has not been wilderness by any traditional definition in over a hundred years. Go figure.

 

[libidilatimmy]

so Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Colorado, new mexico, Arizona, Washington etc all have safer wilderness areas?

come on, the law is for economic reasons only.

No wilderness area is any safer than the next one per se. I agree that economics was part of it, but if it was the sole driving factor for the law, why did they put part 'B' in the statute?

(a) No nonresident shall hunt big or trophy game animals on any designated wilderness area, as defined by federal or state law, in this state unless accompanied by a licensed professional guide or a resident guide. There shall be at least one (1) licensed professional guide or resident guide accompanying each two (2) nonresident hunters. The commission may also specify other areas of the state, or specific big or trophy game species, for which a licensed professional or resident guide is required for nonresidents, for purposes of proper game management, protection of hunter welfare and safety, or better enforcement of game and fish laws. The commission may allow licensed guides to accompany more than two (2) hunters but no more than six (6) hunters in specific areas.

(b) Any resident possessing a valid resident big or trophy game animal license may apply for and receive a resident guide license. The resident guide license shall be issued without charge or bond by the commission, any district supervisor or resident game warden upon receipt of an affidavit from the resident stating the names and addresses of the nonresident hunters to be guided, the game to be hunted, the area to be hunted, and that the resident has not received nor will accept directly or indirectly any compensation for his services as a guide. A resident guide shall not guide more than two (2) nonresident hunters in any calendar year on any national forest, wilderness area, national game refuge, or national park, except as provided in W.S. 23-2-401, nor shall he accept any compensation or gratuity for his services. An exchange of guide services shall not be considered compensation for the purposes of this section. The name and license number of the nonresident hunter shall be placed on the back of the resident guide license and stamped or signed by the issuer.

 

[wileywapiti]

No wilderness area is any safer than the next one per se. I agree that economics was part of it, but if it was the sole driving factor for the law, why did they put part 'B' in the statute?

(a) No nonresident shall hunt big or trophy game animals on any designated wilderness area, as defined by federal or state law, in this state unless accompanied by a licensed professional guide or a resident guide. There shall be at least one (1) licensed professional guide or resident guide accompanying each two (2) nonresident hunters. The commission may also specify other areas of the state, or specific big or trophy game species, for which a licensed professional or resident guide is required for nonresidents, for purposes of proper game management, protection of hunter welfare and safety, or better enforcement of game and fish laws. The commission may allow licensed guides to accompany more than two (2) hunters but no more than six (6) hunters in specific areas.

(b) Any resident possessing a valid resident big or trophy game animal license may apply for and receive a resident guide license. The resident guide license shall be issued without charge or bond by the commission, any district supervisor or resident game warden upon receipt of an affidavit from the resident stating the names and addresses of the nonresident hunters to be guided, the game to be hunted, the area to be hunted, and that the resident has not received nor will accept directly or indirectly any compensation for his services as a guide. A resident guide shall not guide more than two (2) nonresident hunters in any calendar year on any national forest, wilderness area, national game refuge, or national park, except as provided in W.S. 23-2-401, nor shall he accept any compensation or gratuity for his services. An exchange of guide services shall not be considered compensation for the purposes of this section. The name and license number of the nonresident hunter shall be placed on the back of the resident guide license and stamped or signed by the issuer.

You're 100% correct, both of you. In Wyoming, a nonresident hunter can't hunt in the wilderness areas of the state, but a nonresident backpacker/mtn climber can trek through the exact same wilderness area as far and as long as they want with no guide or resident companion. Its all about the money, no doubt about it.

In my opinion, part B is a loop hole...Lets be honest, how many nonresident hunters know someone willing to take the time "during their season" to help out a nonresident unless they are in the same area? It gives nonresidents an out, but to be honest, it probably doesn't get used very often. Now, with that said, I have taken nonresidents hunting in the wilderness. Its easy to get the license and the guys I took were very appreciative. As they should, I saved them thousands of dollars. haha

 

[wileywapiti]

PS...Finding and taking nonresidents into the wilderness area and getting them bulls they would never have found on their own or saving them thousands of dollars in guiding fees is a great way to get a swap hunt with people from other states. Just saying..... hint hint...whitetail guys!!

 

[libidilatimmy]

In my opinion, part B is a loop hole...Lets be honest, how many nonresident hunters know someone willing to take the time "during their season" to help out a nonresident unless they are in the same area? It gives nonresidents an out, but to be honest, it probably doesn't get used very often. Now, with that said, I have taken nonresidents hunting in the wilderness. Its easy to get the license and the guys I took were very appreciative. As they should, I saved them thousands of dollars. haha

I've done this on about 8 occasions, and yes it is a good way to get swaps out of.

 

[Fink]

Part B is simply a way to appease the resident hunters that would no longer be able to hunt with out of state family and friends in the wilderness areas.
I'd think that very few non residents have the ability to make this work for them.

 

[mntnguide]

Close, but not quite right. The BLM administers plenty of wilderness areas, subtle point, but correct. There are also so called Wilderness Study areas. You will find plenty of both in SE OR, SW ID and NW NV, as well as many other states. Usually not traditional high mountain areas. Bottom line is you better know the rules for where you are at, and it can and often does change. I have been surprised to the the legal way I can use BLM radically changed with a simple designation of a wilderness study area. Yep,
the same roads are still there, pretty good ones too. Has not been wilderness by any traditional definition in over a hundred years. Go figure.

thanks for clarifying.. i have only spent time in wilderness designated by forest service, and was unaware of BLM's areas of influence as well

 

[Tim McCoy]

thanks for clarifying.. i have only spent time in wilderness designated by forest service, and was unaware of BLM's areas of influence as well

No prob. None in WY may be the case. But the question, while in a WY section was so general, figured I might ought to broaden the response in the event it was a general query about all federal lands. Dang stuff changes from time to time too.

 

[libidilatimmy]

Part B is simply a way to appease the resident hunters that would no longer be able to hunt with out of state family and friends in the wilderness areas.
I'd think that very few non residents have the ability to make this work for them.

Yeah, it's probably not a very high percentage. I'd also say that a very small portion of NR hunters have the resources to hunt the wilderness areas anyhow without the assistance of a local or outfitter. I know I wouldn't just go grab a couple horses and drive up to a trailhead on the Bob and head in for two weeks without someone who was experienced in the area going along the first time. The only difference is that there isn't a law in Montana requiring me to do that, it'd just be a smart thing to do.

 

[stevevan]

And then there is the unusual circumstances such as my situation. I was a resident of Wyoming for 25 years and had the pleasure to hunt sheep, elk in the designated wilderness areas. I've since retired and moved back home to Michigan which automatically disqualified me from hunting those same areas by myself or with another nonresident that I know so well. Plus I'm restricted only if I have a hunting license in my pocket. If I'm participating in some other activity such as fishing, backpacking, etc. I can roam unguided to my hearts content. Sounds abit fishy to me. It's hard not to believe that some special interest group(hunting outfitters) didn't have some influence over the initial legislation.

 

[Don K]

Evidently the Outfitters /Guides have strong lobbying power.

Yep, just wait....... If this passes its going to cost more to hunt there.

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2015/Introduced/HB0149.pdf

 

[libidilatimmy]

And then there is the unusual circumstances such as my situation. I was a resident of Wyoming for 25 years and had the pleasure to hunt sheep, elk in the designated wilderness areas. I've since retired and moved back home to Michigan which automatically disqualified me from hunting those same areas by myself or with another nonresident that I know so well. Plus I'm restricted only if I have a hunting license in my pocket. If I'm participating in some other activity such as fishing, backpacking, etc. I can roam unguided to my hearts content. Sounds abit fishy to me. It's hard not to believe that some special interest group(hunting outfitters) didn't have some influence over the initial legislation.

I feel for you and know a few people in the same boat. Your case is the exact reason why there needs to be changes to the law.

 

[mntnguide]

And then there is the unusual circumstances such as my situation. I was a resident of Wyoming for 25 years and had the pleasure to hunt sheep, elk in the designated wilderness areas. I've since retired and moved back home to Michigan which automatically disqualified me from hunting those same areas by myself or with another nonresident that I know so well. Plus I'm restricted only if I have a hunting license in my pocket. If I'm participating in some other activity such as fishing, backpacking, etc. I can roam unguided to my hearts content. Sounds abit fishy to me. It's hard not to believe that some special interest group(hunting outfitters) didn't have some influence over the initial legislation.

To bad its unlike Idaho, where i spent 22 years growing up and bought a Lifetime license that continues to put me into resident draw odds if i were to apply; only i now have to pay NR price, but i never have to buy an idaho license again. Wish WY would have something similar to those who are in situations such as yourself.

 

[Apparition]

I've been kicking this issue around in my head for quite some time, and think that an avenue that should be discussed would be for individual endorsements that allows a NR hunter access to wilderness areas on an individual basis if they can demonstrate that they are competent to keep themselves,

Oh this is just nonsense, Ive hunted both the Selway and Frank Church, the largest wilderness area in the lower 48, once solo. Its not like some one dropped you off on the moon, and you dont have to be the kin of Jim Bridger to hunt the darn thing. If it was really about safety they would stop every non resident from doing anything in the wilderness!!

 

[tim]

another funny one is that in Alaska, non residents need to hire a guide to hunt sheep. if the guide is a non resident, they can't hunt sheep with out a guide. even if they are a registered guide in Alaska. I guess all states have weird laws.

 

[libidilatimmy]

Oh this is just nonsense, Ive hunted both the Selway and Frank Church, the largest wilderness area in the lower 48, once solo. Its not like some one dropped you off on the moon, and you dont have to be the kin of Jim Bridger to hunt the darn thing. If it was really about safety they would stop every non resident from doing anything in the wilderness!!

Hahaha, I knew I'd get a response like this eventually. I've tried to take you all down the exact train of thought that your going to see from the opposition whenever this law, if ever, gets challenged. It's one thing to know a law is a bunch of BS and call it such, it's quite another to convince legislation that with hard evidence. Changing the status quo is not easy in this state and about the only avenue for the NR to do so is through your hunting organizations.