One shot kills??

[waddy]

I see on the numerous (and sometimes questionable) hunting shows on TV where the animal is shot while standing still, and when hit the hind legs suck up underneath, the animal falls heavily in its tracks, and expires with hardly a wiggle. Now I have made a lot of shots on animals in the past, and seen many more made. I don't recall this ever happening with a heart/lung shot. Does anyone know if these are spine shots purposely made (that is a pretty small target to be able to hit reliably) to make it look better for TV? Just an old hunter wondering.

 

[Eberle]

Waddy,

I've seen the same thing on tv. I've shot maybe two whitetails in the lungs that have dropped in their tracks. I would say 95%+ usually run off that I've shot through the lungs. Every deer I've shot in the neck has dropped in his tracks! It is amazing what editors can do with video footage these days. I've got a friend that produces Jimmy Houston Outdoors & Full Draw Adventures. It is crazy what they can edit & fix!

 

[tdub24]

IMO, I think they are using huge caliber rifles and it just blows the heart/lungs up dropping the animal in its tracks. For example, using a 300 mag on a deer at 200 yards is going to cause lots of damage. At the same time, you might have something with the spine shot theory. I too have never had an animal drop in its tracks, but have seen my Pop make a neck shot that killed the deer instantly.

 

[NorthT]

Ive seen a few whitetails dropped with lung/heart shot with 7mag in the last couple of years. Never really thought about it that much. I kinda rather see them run myself, then follow the red stained road to me pot of meat ha.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I have shot somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 deer and probably as many antelope. They are not all the same. I've shot lots of deer thru the lungs/heart and lots of them have dropped immediately, lots havn't. Antelope are very different. Most of the ones I've shot go down very quickly, maybe a step or 2. I shoot a 25-06 with a 117 gr Sierra bullet....not overkill. I remember my Dad shooting a little forky in the costal range in Calif that probably didn't weigh 120# live weight. Shot him with a 30-06 at about 100 yards thru the lungs. He ran off without even showing signs of being hit. We found a handful of lung tissue on the ground. Found hin about 200yards away stone dead. They are not all the same!!

Larger game like elk are another story.

 

[dcannon]

I have a friend who has guided for several tv shows. They film the animal dying, then reenact the shot to give the appearance of 1 shot, drop dead kills.

 

[Murdy]

IMO, I think they are using huge caliber rifles and it just blows the heart/lungs up dropping the animal in its tracks. For example, using a 300 mag on a deer at 200 yards is going to cause lots of damage. At the same time, you might have something with the spine shot theory. I too have never had an animal drop in its tracks, but have seen my Pop make a neck shot that killed the deer instantly.

Agreed, I've had whitetails go down right now when hit with the .50 cal muzzleloader.

 

[Fink]

Every deer I've ever shot with a gun was hit in essentially the same spot, right through the center of the lungs. I don't aim low for the heart, and I don't shoot for the shoulders. I've killed all my deer with a .270, and have never dropped one in his tracks. My deer go anywhere from 10 yards to about 75 before they pile up.

I think alot of the instant pile ups have to do with bullets that deliver a more devastaing impact, instead of just poking a hole through the animal. I switched to Barnes ttsx's this year, I'll let you know if I dump one in his tracks in about 2 weeks.

 

[Timberstalker]

I have been using my 25-06 for over thirty years now. When I started @ 12 years old my dad said "shot them in the heart/lungs" so thats what I did for the first few years and they always ran off. As I grew up and gained confidence I started shooting spine or neck, if I have time and had a good rest, No more running off. Elk, same thing just use .300 win mag. If I don't have a good rest and proper time I will always take the heart lung shot. In thirty+ years I have had one deer get up after the shot and run off never to be found, I have recovered every other animal I have shot, over 25 deer and only 5 elk. "IF" I take a second shot is taken it's usually not needed, or I miss, I believe the first shot is the best shot. There has been may animals walk away without the trigger being squeezed that I know I could have hit, but I don't shoot unless I believe the first shot is a kill shot.

 

[Vanish]

Everything I shoot runs for a bit. Everything my wife shoots falls in its tracks.

Wish I could figure out what makes the difference as we're both shooting .270s!

 

[waddy]

I definitely agree that "they aren't all the same". I just thought maybe I could get everyone thinking about those shots while watching the programs. The ones I am talking about are very characteristic, i.e., that tell-tale sign where the hind legs instantly suck right up to the belly, and the head is thrown back as the butt hits the ground. I may very well be wrong (my wife will certainly attest to that!), but to me that is a classic spine shot. Please help me watch and see if anyone can come to a consensus. Not that it really matters, except for the fact that when trying to duplicate that instaneous kill shot, it can cause the inexperienced to go for the "bigger gun next year" syndrome until finally they are too afraid to even shoot the thing enough to sight it in. If they do shoot it, they flinch so bad they have difficulty keeping the hits in 12 inches at 100 yards. I'm sure not saying there are not those who are capable of shooting the big ones, and shooting them VERY well! Usually it is the ones with not much experience who blew a hind leg off last year and were told or decided the answer was a "bigger gun". I see this syndrome continually at our annual Sportsman's Club Hunter Sight-In days.

Oops, sorry, I got off on a rant. I'm still just curious about that particular kill shot. Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

 

[Timberstalker]

I did shoot one Blacktail buck right through the lungs that just tipped over and laid on his back with all 4 legs pointing to the sky. I shot it with my 25-06 with 100 gr rem Core-lokt @ abot 30 yrds, it was wierd!

 

[Sawfish]

I have shot two deer that were flipped over on their back with all 4 legs pointing skyward. The first was a spike Whitetail in Louisiana that I shot with a Ruger 44 Carbine. His head hit the ground so hard it drove the spikes all the way into the swamp mud. Scared the hell out of me, as I thought it was a doe, until I pulled the spokes out of the mud. The second was a Colorado Muley that I shot with a .358 Norma Magnum (we were also hunting elk).

Last week I shot a Blacktail with a 30/06 Handgun. He was facing me at a slight angle angle. The bullet entered the right chest, went through the lungs, and exited the rear of of the left shoulder. He hit the ground like he was pole axed, and never moved. x 3 on "not all the same".

 

[llp]

The only way an animal will drop at the shot is if the central nervous system (CNS) is disrupted. A shot to the spine or brain obviously disrupts the CNS. A shot through the lungs rarely disrupts the CNS - However, no two animals and no two bullets perform identically. Sometimes a seemingly perfect lung shot disrupts the CNS due to "shock", but even more likely the bullet fragmented or a rib bone was sent into the CNS, causing the same disruption as a spine shot. It is relatively difficult to make head and spine shots for the average hunter under field condition. That is why heart lung shots are preferred. There is nothing wrong with the animal running a little after the shot, at least in most situations. A bigger gun through the heart/lungs won't generally increase CNS disruption, and won't ensure they drop at the shot. I've seen small deer shot with a 375 H&H run a bit after the shot. They are effectively dead on their feet, but without interfereing witht he CNS they still run.
llp

 

[llp]

Conversely, I shot 4 deer and antelope this year under controlled conditions with head shots from a .243. Needless to say they all dropped at the shot, and it is amazing how effective the little 243 is at emptying the brain pan. These were cull hunts, and shot selection was chosen specifically to avoid any meat damage, and ranges were short to moderate. Don't expect an animal to ever drop at the shot with a traditional heart lung shot, and don't worry if they run a bit. They are still dead and you will have your trophy shortly.
llp

 

[Timberstalker]

Any neck or spine shot I make is less than 75 yrds, most animals I have taken are under 100.

 

[HuntWYODon]

I always aim for front shoulder. Bust at least one shoulder and takes out lungs. I've had many deer drop in their tracks doing this when I have a broadside shot. I've had a couple elk do the same and many anteope. I've always used a Rem 7 mag and for last 8 yrs. a Rem 300 Ultra Mag. With Barnes TSX or TTSX on deer and lope's, sometimes bust both shoulders. I bet if you watch in shows, the ones that go down on the spot were hit in shoulder or spine. I bet 1/3 of 60 plus bucks (deer) I've shot dropped on the spot. I don't want then to suffer if possible and no need to track.

 

[HuntWYODon]

I have shot two deer that were flipped over on their back with all 4 legs pointing skyward. The first was a spike Whitetail in Louisiana that I shot with a Ruger 44 Carbine. His head hit the ground so hard it drove the spikes all the way into the swamp mud. Scared the hell out of me, as I thought it was a doe, until I pulled the spokes out of the mud. The second was a Colorado Muley that I shot with a .358 Norma Magnum (we were also hunting elk).

Last week I shot a Blacktail with a 30/06 Handgun. He was facing me at a slight angle angle. The bullet entered the right chest, went through the lungs, and exited the rear of of the left shoulder. He hit the ground like he was pole axed, and never moved. x 3 on "not all the same".

Hey Saw, did it bust a shoulder ? Bet it did and that's why he dropped. I shot a white buck back in 1986 that flipped over backward like that. I don't remember exactly where the bullet hit but I was aiming for chest like normal.

 

[Fink]

Sometimes they run closer to the road anyway?

I wish... Mine always run downhill, away from the truck, through a briar patch, and into a creek bottom.

 

[ivorytip]

2 years ago i was hunting cow elk with a .338, a cow caught me off gaurd at 20 yards away and lets just say she dropped hard and fast. ive only had one deer and elk drop with my.270 right away the elk was a shoulder lung shot with 150g this year and a deer last year with 130g same style of shot. both only close to 100yrd out. i think another big diff in this is iff they are alert and excited or have no idea u r there. when they get hit not knowing somethings up i think the adrenalin hasnt had a chance to keep them goin.... idk just an idea. good topic