Official Post Padding Thread

[Musket Man]

Couldn't feed them or water them so it turns into a borderline case of animal cruelty. Remarkably the Feds are handling things pretty well and making a strong case that it's unsafe to round them up for all involved. I'm thinking they'll regroup with court approved capture methods since this route drags out to long and come back loaded for bear. They have a legit argument now that it's safer and more humane to shoot them than to let them die on a trailer.

They killed the cows by pushing them to hard with choppers when it was to hot after tearing out a bunch of stock tanks so the cows would have to go to the river to drink.

 

[packmule]

Won't chase them with the choppers next time if they've already found a way to concentrate them during the heat of the Summer.

 

[Musket Man]

No decent cowboys would charge more then the cows are worth to round them up anyways.

 

[packmule]

A decent rancher would have removed them to avoid losing them all. . See now with how long it took why those Dakota cattle got wiped out?

 

[Musket Man]

Its not about the cows, its about the feds misusing the ESA and trying to force ppl off of the land. I fail to see what this has to do with all the cows that died in the blizzards in the Dakotas.

 

[packmule]

It not being cattle country is a good reason to force people off along with acreage required to make up a AUM. At <$2 AUM it's practically welfare and when you lease to make a living you're at the mercy of the lessor whether its the govt or private individual.

The roundup time has a lot to do with it and the numbers small outfits run on public land that they can't do anything with.

 

[Musket Man]

Its had cows on it since the 1800's. How would it not be cow country now?

 

[Musket Man]

Getting cows off public land is being pushed by the so called environmental groups, defenders of wildlife, center for biological diversity, ect. The same groups that pushed so hard to introduce wolves and kept wolf management tied up in courts for years while alot of good hunting was destroyed. They would like nothing more then to end hunting and ranching in the west. If the feds have the power to stop grazing on public land that have the power to stop any other use on it too including hunting.

 

[packmule]

Its had cows on it since the 1800's. How would it not be cow country now?

It's just not...just like our Far West Tx desert isn't where it requirs 1 head to a section to not be overgrazed and catch tanks put in so they actually have water. Ppl can make it happen, but it's kind of like polishing a "floater" and thinking it'll magically turn into something else.


Stopping hunting wouldn't be in their best interest bc then they'd have to figure out some other way for the states to bring in income. Ranching in the West is kind of a love/hate thing since it's subsidized out the Wazoo. If it were some welfare leach waiting on the first of the month folks would likely not take kindly them, if it's some rancher that a person can relate to, then that's fine? IMHO, wildlife on BLM should come first before an individual's livelihood.

 

[Musket Man]

I dont see how its subsidized since the rancher pays per AUM to run cows on it. Its money that the land would not make otherwise. Sure its not the most productive grazing land but you can still run cattle on it.

 

[swampokie]

Was this rancher paying the BLM or is he a free grazer?

 

[Musket Man]

He paid up until the BLM tried to put him out of business by cutting his allotment by 85%.

 

[swampokie]

I guess I don't fully understand. If I leased land for grazing and I wanted to eliminate this lease am I not allowed to just because it wouldn't benefit the leasee? I hunted a lease of 440 acres all my life and killed my first deer on it and after 20 years of this the landowner decided to sell and eliminate the lease. I wasn't even allowed to pout over it and I don't think he has anymore rights than any other person in the west or the whole country. All this being said I certainly feel his pain being a rancher myself.

 

[Musket Man]

These grazing leases go with deeded land and the deeded land is not worth much without the grazing allotment that goes with it. Its a little different then just leasing land. In a state like Nevada that is mostly public land if a rancher looses the grazing allotment that goes with his deeded land he is pretty much out of business.

 

[swampokie]

If the land doesn't belong to BLM then I totally agree. Im not sure whom the land is deeded to. If there is a dispute in ownership then it should be settled in court but if a leaseholder isn't paying the federal govt a lease fee because he feels that the land SHOULD belong to the state then that is a totally different matter. I don't normally trust the feds but if its federal land then I don't see the rancher having much ground to stand on. But like I said im on the outside lookin in and probably shouldn't even comment

 

[Eberle]

You need to research the Bundy family. They are in the right & the feds are wrong. They have a treaty that dates back to the 1800's before BLM existed. The treaty should be honored & grandfathered as long as a Bundy is alive and ranching!

 

[packmule]

I dont see how its subsidized since the rancher pays per AUM to run cows on it. Its money that the land would not make otherwise. Sure its not the most productive grazing land but you can still run cattle on it.

Pricing and formula for it creates a price well below FMB to boost their incomes. Grazing fees don't even cover oversight and despite beef prices being sky high those fees have remained level at the price floor despite beef prices supposedly calculated into the AUM prices. It's basically just a way to pump more $ into those economies.






He's had 2 court appearances to prove he has rights to it and can't produce anything. BLM formation has no bearing on anything, they're just an agency, Feds still own it public lands.

 

[marcusvdk]

Pretty good hockey playoffs so far.

 

[Ikeepitcold]

These grazing leases go with deeded land and the deeded land is not worth much without the grazing allotment that goes with it. Its a little different then just leasing land. In a state like Nevada that is mostly public land if a rancher looses the grazing allotment that goes with his deeded land he is pretty much out of business.

A good friend of mine we hunt with has a bunch of deeded land he grazes his cattle on. No doubt if they took the land away he would be in big trouble.

 

[Musket Man]

Loosing their grazing allotment has put alot of ranchers under. Its also made alot of ranches worth next to nothing since a big part of their value was in the grazing allotment that came with the deeded land. Its a bad deal.