New muzzleloader talk

[buckbull]

I bought a Knight Bk-92 inline muzzleloader back in the early nineties. I could never get it to shoot consistently, even cleaning the barrel after every shot. Lost interest since I couldn't get it to group very well. Fast forward to today. Illinois allows landowner tags that aren't filled during the firearm season to be used during the dedicated muzzleloader season. I was really wishing I had a muzzleloader last fall as I did not see a buck big enough to shoot during the firearm season; and with both kids now away at school I actually have alot more time available to hunt.

So muzzle-loader.com has a sale going on and I picked up a CVA Optima 2 for $302 ($338 after taxes). I'll transfer my Luepold scope from the knight rifle. All of my old muzzle loader stuff really doesn't transfer since it was .54 cal and my new one is .50 cal.

I want easy to load and easy to clean. I've spent a lot of time reading what's recommended and new but was just wondering what other folks are using. My BK92 used a percussion cap and I used Pyrodex Select granular powder.

This is what I plan to start with (unless CVA instructions say otherwise)
1. IMR White Hots pellets
2. Winchester 777 muzzleloader primers
3. Thor or Powerbelts. Will buy the sizing kit for the Thor's. And then shoot both and see what shoots best. Not interested in shooting sabots.

Any "must try" suggestions? If I can't get the thor's or powerbelts to pattern then I think my next step will be to change powder. Only interested in powder pellets.

 

[mallardsx2]

I use a CVA MR Nitride model with 84 (measured) grains of BH 209, a 300 grain Hornady SST Sabot and a Federal 209 primer.

Cleans pretty easy, loads easy, doesn't rust and to be honest, it shoots almost as accurately as my 30-06...It kicks a LOT more than my 30-06 though....

I feel guilty using it during a "muzzleloader" season. I use it mostly during the Illinois shotgun.

Personally, I would stay away from the thor bullets. I had a heck of a time with those things. I know others will disagree but I'm going to tell you that I will never use them again. EVER.

GA

IL

IL

 

[mallardsx2]

And before anyone asks me, yes, I got the "test kit" from Thor....

Then I took my mitutoyo 0-1 mic's (.0001 accuracy micrometer) out and checked the bullets and validated things....

No thanks.

I made sure the last one I fired was the last one I RAMMED down the barrel.

 

[buckbull]

If I thought I was going to use it more I would have maybe spent more for an Accura. Most years I actually kill a buck with my bow and shotgun so I didn't want to spend alot on something I may only use once in a while. Its kind of a last resort kind of thing. I really like the MR, nice looking rig.

 

[JimP]

I have a Accura and the barrel is too small of a diameter for any of the Thor's.

So instead I have been using Barnes TEZ 250 grain bullets with a sabot. I don't use it in Colorado so I also have a scope on it

The Thors shoot just fine in my Thompson Center Triumph with 90 grains of Pyrodex. I have found that most people try and to drive muzzle loader bullets too fast and the accuracy suffers. A friend was shooting 110 grains of Pyrodex and couldn't get them to group, but when he backed it off to 95 grains the group tightened right up.

What does Illinois allow for bullets and powders?

 

[buckbull]

We can pretty much use anything that starts at .45 caliber. Scopes are fine. Smokeless powder is fine. The gun just can't be loaded through the breech.

 

[idcwby]

I haven’t got to try it yet, but a lot of people are using Blackhorn 209. It’s like cleaning a smokeless gun and you get better velocity with it.
What little bit I’ve been doing the last few years, I’ve been using Hodgdon Triple 7 pellets in the normal and magnums with decent accuracy and as long as you clean within a couple days everything cleans up nice. I should sit down and develop a load some day, but got to many other guns I’m playing with at the moment.

 

[JimP]

I was using BH 209 but it is next to impossible to find anymore.

Hodgen was importing it from Canada but there have been problems doing that in the last few years.

It does burn cleaner but like all black powder substitutes it is dirty, just not as dirty.

I'm going to try out some 777 this year and see how it does.

 

[Muley bound]

I’m no expert by any means, but me and some buddies, family members have been playing this game for many years. We couldn’t hunt with rifles for years(shotgun only areas), so got into the muzzleloader thing.
My 2 cents. Every muzzleloader, different make/model, will respond to different loads, bullets differently. My buddy would have one gun that would great good with a particular load and ammo, my gun wouldn’t group worth a crap with the same load…..after hours and money pissed out the window, I changed things up.
Fast foward, Blackhorn powder always seemed to work the best. But, my gun shot better with less powder. His shot better with more powder. We both shot 250gr bullets, he shoots Barnes, I shoot T.C. bullets. Both shoot CCI primers. So I feel it all comes down to shooting the gun, playing with what works best out of the gun you’re shooting.
I shoot a T.C. Triump Bone Collector .50cal with 110 gr Blackhorn, with 250 gr T.C. Bullet and cci primer. I have pretty solid groups out to 200 yards

 

[mallardsx2]

I can relate to hours spend and pissing money out the window...I wish I had all of the powder back that I wasted trying to find a load that this Knight Long Range Hunter liked that I had. I shot 300$ worth of bullets out the end of that rifle and 3 pounds of powder through that gun trying to find literally ANYTHING it liked. I even took the scope and rings off and re-mounted them. Finally, I changed the scope thinking that was the problem. In the end, it was that Nikon scope was indeed the problem. Weird, because it tracked fine when locked down but when it got jarred upon the gun firing it went feral on me....

I replaced the Nikon with a Leupold, got it dialed in with honrady SST 300 grain bullets and it will hold a 3" group at 200 yards. I started to actually enjoy the gun and then my father-in-law took a liking to the rifle one day and asked me if I would sell it to him. So, I sold it to him for what I paid for it ($275 if I recall). lol

Oddly enough the Knight, CVA MR, and my wife's TC Impact all shoot the same (weight measured) 84 grain BH 209 loads really well. It makes my life easier when I get ready for muzzleloader season when it comes to primers, bullets, and powder.

Obviously, my FIL is satisfied with the gun....It's been several years since he has killed a deer in the gun season because he always tags out in muzzleloader season. lol



Having said all that, if it was me and I was going to be hunting in Illinois again, I would be using a single shot rifle in .350 legend so I didn't have to deal with the mess of a muzzleloader.

 

[Muley bound]

I can relate to hours spend and pissing money out the window...I wish I had all of the powder back that I wasted trying to find a load that this Knight Long Range Hunter liked that I had. I shot 300$ worth of bullets out the end of that rifle and 3 pounds of powder through that gun trying to find literally ANYTHING it liked. I even took the scope and rings off and re-mounted them. Finally, I changed the scope thinking that was the problem. In the end, it was that Nikon scope was indeed the problem. Weird, because it tracked fine when locked down but when it got jarred upon the gun firing it went feral on me....

I replaced the Nikon with a Leupold, got it dialed in with honrady SST 300 grain bullets and it will hold a 3" group at 200 yards. I started to actually enjoy the gun and then my father-in-law took a liking to the rifle one day and asked me if I would sell it to him. So, I sold it to him for what I paid for it ($275 if I recall). lol

Oddly enough the Knight, CVA MR, and my wife's TC Impact all shoot the same (weight measured) 84 grain BH 209 loads really well. It makes my life easier when I get ready for muzzleloader season when it comes to primers, bullets, and powder.

Obviously, my FIL is satisfied with the gun....It's been several years since he has killed a deer in the gun season because he always tags out in muzzleloader season. lol

View attachment 43430View attachment 43431View attachment 43432

Having said all that, if it was me and I was going to be hunting in Illinois again, I would be using a single shot rifle in .350 legend so I didn't have to deal with the mess of a muzzleloader.

Kinda funny…..I had the same thing with a Nikon scope on my old muzzleloader!! I had a pretty solid load set up for the gun. But one fall, I couldn’t get the damn thing sighted in for the life of me. I would shoot it clean, shoot it dirty, and so on. It’s just wouldn’t stay consistent. Come to find out, the scope went to crap. Switched to the Leupold muzzleloader scope and was back in action and grouped great!

 

[mallardsx2]

Frustrating when a scope messes up on a guy. It puts a lot of doubt in a man's head for sure and it can be very costly to discover because you don't want to think that it's the scope that's causing the issue...To add insult to injury, it was the second Nikon scope that took a crap on me.

I am Leupold fanboy now.

On the muzzleloader bullets, I have had great luck with these bullets as well.

Hornady FPB Muzzleloading Bullets 50 Cal 300 Grain Flex Tip eXpanding (midwayusa.com)

I see they are discontinued. Not sure if they have been replaced with something else or not.

I see they have these out now.
50 Cal .499 Bore Driver® ELD-X® - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

But I don't think those would be Colorado legal.

 

[JimP]

The Driver ELD-X are not legal in Colorado, they have a plastic sabot on the back end.

 

[JimP]

Just as a FYI, Powerbelts are legal in Colorado even with their plastic skirt, but that skirt is attached to the bullet itself and doesn't drop away after firing it.

Lot's of things to look at as far as what is legal and what isn't .

 

[mallardsx2]

You know if those bor-lok bullets are legal?

 

[JimP]

You know if those bor-lok bullets are legal?

Looking at them, they could be in a gray area with Colorado. While the plastic is part of the bullet it is also designed to grip the rifleings like a sabot.

 

[buckbull]

I can relate to hours spend and pissing money out the window...I wish I had all of the powder back that I wasted trying to find a load that this Knight Long Range Hunter liked that I had. I shot 300$ worth of bullets out the end of that rifle and 3 pounds of powder through that gun trying to find literally ANYTHING it liked. I even took the scope and rings off and re-mounted them. Finally, I changed the scope thinking that was the problem. In the end, it was that Nikon scope was indeed the problem. Weird, because it tracked fine when locked down but when it got jarred upon the gun firing it went feral on me....

I replaced the Nikon with a Leupold, got it dialed in with honrady SST 300 grain bullets and it will hold a 3" group at 200 yards. I started to actually enjoy the gun and then my father-in-law took a liking to the rifle one day and asked me if I would sell it to him. So, I sold it to him for what I paid for it ($275 if I recall). lol

Oddly enough the Knight, CVA MR, and my wife's TC Impact all shoot the same (weight measured) 84 grain BH 209 loads really well. It makes my life easier when I get ready for muzzleloader season when it comes to primers, bullets, and powder.

Obviously, my FIL is satisfied with the gun....It's been several years since he has killed a deer in the gun season because he always tags out in muzzleloader season. lol

View attachment 43430View attachment 43431View attachment 43432

Having said all that, if it was me and I was going to be hunting in Illinois again, I would be using a single shot rifle in .350 legend so I didn't have to deal with the mess of a muzzleloader.

That's exactly what we did, we all bought a CVA scout single shot in 350 legend.

 

[buckbull]

i had 6 bass pro or cabelas cards and bought winchester 777 primers, IMR White Hots, powerbelts and a bunch of stuff to clean the rifle. Will pick the supplies up at cabelas on my way into work on Wednesday. Had to deal with a FFL transfer for the muzzleloader I bought online. I didn't realize FFL was required for muzzleloaders.

 

[JimP]

i had 6 bass pro or cabelas cards and bought winchester 777 primers, IMR White Hots, powerbelts and a bunch of stuff to clean the rifle. Will pick the supplies up at cabelas on my way into work on Wednesday. Had to deal with a FFL transfer for the muzzleloader I bought online. I didn't realize FFL was required for muzzleloaders.

There's not, I have purchased 2 on line with no problems.

You might have something for a background check depending on the state that you live in but there is nothing federal with buying a muzzle loader on line.

 

[buckbull]

There's not, I have purchased 2 on line with no problems.

You might have something for a background check depending on the state that you live in but there is nothing federal with buying a muzzle loader on line.

Its an Illinois thing. It must be shipped to an FFL dealer who will then validate my FOID card.