Pine creek ranch in Nevada has an interesting past with Wayne Hage who was one cool guy and his story of fighting the goverment to save his ranch was amazing
https://youtu.be/f4hKiEnQdwU
https://youtu.be/f4hKiEnQdwU
Nevada rancher Wayne Hage
- Thread starter dustin ray
- Start date
I'm sure I've heard of this ranch before. I remember somthing about his fight. I'll watch this. Thanks for posting.
Horsenhike
Very Active Member
"We're from the government, and we're here to help." Probably not a good sign.
Water rights are nasty business in the west. I think if the full story were told about land transfer and the sale of water rights we would all be amazed. Interesting his thoughts on the Nature Conservancy. I would like to know more. Does the NC sell water rights of the land it buys?
Water rights are nasty business in the west. I think if the full story were told about land transfer and the sale of water rights we would all be amazed. Interesting his thoughts on the Nature Conservancy. I would like to know more. Does the NC sell water rights of the land it buys?
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
I am not taking sides with anyone on this issue. But the gentleman that owns the ranch, water & grazing allotments is a good example of how the western ranchers view land issues. He talks about owning this and that, but I'll bet his doesn't own the bulk of the close to 200,000 acres he says constitute his ranch. He has leases, allotments and water rights only and doesn't have deeded or patented rights to the leased land.
I am just pointing this out because lots of western states have laws that keep the public off this land. If you enter it you are considered a trespasser. Keeps us hunters from entering federally owned land. Here in Colorado, grazing leases in the National Forest and fenced to keep the cow on the lease. Hunters have access to it and also any leased BLM land. The only time I have ever seen No Trespassing signs were on mineral & gas leases. I am sure there are for safety reasons. Leased federal land in Wyoming is a different story. If you try and hunt it, you will have a visit from the law and probably get cited for trespassing.
I am just pointing this out because lots of western states have laws that keep the public off this land. If you enter it you are considered a trespasser. Keeps us hunters from entering federally owned land. Here in Colorado, grazing leases in the National Forest and fenced to keep the cow on the lease. Hunters have access to it and also any leased BLM land. The only time I have ever seen No Trespassing signs were on mineral & gas leases. I am sure there are for safety reasons. Leased federal land in Wyoming is a different story. If you try and hunt it, you will have a visit from the law and probably get cited for trespassing.
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SouthernWyo
Member
- Mar 11, 2011
- 62
- 1
Last statement is completely false. Federal lands leased or permitted for livestock use are open to the public for hunting and other recreation as long as they are legally accessed.
maybe by law they may be but in reality it don't stop those that lease from putting up no trespassing signs . and if you cross one you will get ticketed. sure you might win in court but not till much grief is suffered.
don't believe me? that is just fine. go right ahead and cross those fences, an see what happens.
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Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
I have seen No Trespassing signs many times on land that showed up on my gps (with land ownership chip) as blm in Wyoming. As kidoggy said ....tickets issued. Then you have to prove exactly where you were, go to court and fight it. Most people (especially nonresidents) will just pay it.
SouthernWyo
Member
- Mar 11, 2011
- 62
- 1
Anyone that gets trespassed on federal land, and anyone that lets themselves be buffaloed in this day and age deserves what they get.
buckbull
Veteran member
- Jun 20, 2011
- 2,130
- 1,303
Lots of ranchers believe when they lease grazing rights they pretty much own the property. They lease BLM for pennies on the dollar of what private land leases run. Ranchers/Farmers receive billions of dollars in subsidies every year. Personally, I take what Wayne Hage says with a grain of salt.
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What are being called leases are really allotments and I believe that Mr Hauge won a court case saying that he owned the surface rites to that land. Ranchers are then permitted a certain number of cattle each year for said allotment. If you find posted land call the blm and report it I guarantee that it will get changed. As for the fallacy about the costs of the permits big difference on what and who provides what compared to a private land deal. Look into the Taylor grazing act.
I won't argue that. most injustice occurs because folks don't know the law or their rights but it doesn't change the fact that it happens.
if the ranchers really want public support ,they should also be fighting to see it don't happen , and call out landowners that do it.
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I listened to the entire youtube interview with Hage, then read up on his case. Agree, water rights in the west are a hotly contested issue. I've only hunted here in Nebraska, but long to hunt Wyoming and other western states. You can be sure I will pay close attention to the rules and regulations in those states I hunt.
One thing I have learned through the years...some people will do pretty shady things for money.
One thing I have learned through the years...some people will do pretty shady things for money.
that is true.
one thing I have learned over the years is ,ALL people will do pretty shady things for money, IF, they think they can get away with it.
pretty bleak view , I know but I believe it!
Based on recent events it?d probably be wise to start revoking leases whenever the opportunity arises.
Cant revoke they are rites under the tayor grazing act. How about we take 20% of the land in Texas and turn it into open public groung?
Can revoke grazing for drought and not renew.....I believe there have been some droughts.
The difference is we have actual ownership deeds going back to pre-Texas/US that superseded statehood and federal demands. We get to deal with eminent domain when the govt wants something.
They dont issue a grazing permit for that year, but they have to be able to defend the decision in court. Most ranchers voluntary reduce days and numbers to protect the land. They need it every year. My point was its owned by the rancher just like privately held land in Texas. I love public land and believe its there for all just sometimes get frustrated that people dont understand how it came to be or what it costs the states sue to lost property taxes. Its a give and take with the federal government doing lots of taking for years and years.
every time we have a fire, flood, hurricane ,tornado, earthquake ,volcano...... the states get it back. where do you think that money comes from?income tax.?lol
suppose we turn the land over to the states , are folks prepared to, stop begging for federal help in a disaster?
I am all for that, but I bet not a single one of the beggars would be.
SouthernWyo
Member
- Mar 11, 2011
- 62
- 1
Federal grazing use, under a permit or lease, are a privilege, not a right. They are subject to terms and conditions and can be rescinded, suspended, or retired (subject to protest and appeal, same as any other federal land use decision.) Annual use authorizations under the term permit or lease can also be adjusted or put into non-use. Federal grazing privileges are not "owned" by the permittee.
Also, local governments are granted Payment in Lieu of Taxes (PILT) from the federal government in order to compensate for lost tax revenue from tax exempt lands.
Also, local governments are granted Payment in Lieu of Taxes (PILT) from the federal government in order to compensate for lost tax revenue from tax exempt lands.