MRS write up on Utah Elk

[Elkhunter96]

First off, I just want to say I've always been a fan of Eastman's and subscribe to it for help on states I hope to hunt in the future. Now, I have to question their write ups in all states. I am not one to criticize, but I couldn't hold my tongue on this one.

The blue chip units listed for UT elk are way off. Fish lake in no shape way or form is a better unit than pahvant. W desert deep creek is not a blue chip unit. I'm guessing w Deseret deep creek was mixed up with the SW desert unit?

For archery, Wasatch and south slope diamond mtns are not even close to being on the same level as San Juan, Monroe, pahvant, etc. Actually, diamond mtns is one of the lower rated hunts in Utah, even if you buy access to private land. Wasatch is a 280-320 class bull hunt with a very few bigger bulls taken.

I could go on and on.

 

[Ikeepitcold]

There are a lot of changes comming to the MRS to get the details much more accurate.

 

[Elkhunter96]

I just don't want nonresident hunters burning their points on an average unit thinking they are getting a top unit. Just my .02

 

[Ikeepitcold]

I hear Ya. Thanks for the questions

 

[DanPickar]

Elkhunter96,
Thanks for your concern in the MRS..All my units rated in the elk section that you brought up are good units to apply for, as you said. Each unit was rated on many categories and factors, not just the size of elk they hold. A few reasons why I rated some units that you disputed are as follows:

The Wasatch archery tag is a highly underrated unit. There has been a 400" bull taken the last two years out in the southern part of this unit according to my source. I rated it excellent because it is an up-and-coming area with a lot of great bulls showing up that weren't there in the past. Anybody that draws this tag will have a great experience.

thanks for your concerns, feel free to pm me with any other questions.

Thanks
Dan

 

[NDHunter]

I think one thing that is a bit confusing is that the rating of the unit isn't based solely on trophy quality, correct? You consider time of year, tag numbers and hunting pressure, etc.??? What exactly is taken into account for the rating of the unit?

 

[woodtick]

Just figured I'd chime in, the Cache Valley Extended Archery has nothing to do with urban deer issues period. It is all farm ground that is associated with that. The most rural parts of Cache Valley fall into it and from what I've been able to determine it's 95% private and just thought I'd throw this out there Mendon is on the other side of the county it's not even close to the other towns listed. I think I'd know a little bit about this considering I'm a 4 generation CV native!!

 

[ScottR]

I think one thing that is a bit confusing is that the rating of the unit isn't based solely on trophy quality, correct? You consider time of year, tag numbers and hunting pressure, etc.??? What exactly is taken into account for the rating of the unit?

It is multiple factors, hunting pressure, unit history, square miles of public land, and terrain difficulty. The grading system should help decipher each piece.


Eastmans' Staff Digital Media Coordinator

 

[hoshour]

The blue or green chip rating is a proprietary evaluation based on a number of factors, including but not limited to the trophy forecast, past trophy quality, harvest success, access, terrain, trend and hunter pressure - the information you see in the new tables.

There is also a subjective element that takes into account personal experience, conversations with biologists, etc. We are always open for feedback because that is another factor.

Also, reputation doesn't always tell a true story. Reputation often lags change.

Finally, we are reviewing the chip rating process as part of our upgrade to the MRS. You may see more changes than usual in ratings this year and next.

 

[hoshour]

Anyone that has their own idea of what units should be blue or green chip is welcome to send that to Dan Pickar or me. Just be sure to include a note as to why each unit should be rated that way. Reputation, i.e. "everybody knows" is not a good reason.

 

[RUTTIN]

The MRS has a lot of misleading advice on the utah portion, which leads me to believe that the other states are possibly the same. I am glad I don't have the funds to hunt other states because you could be spending your points on a hunt that is not what you thought it was going to be. I understand they can't get everything perfect in the MRS, and that you should also use other references when choosing a hunt. That is one of the great things about this forum, people that actually live around the regions your looking to hunt have inside info and are usually great to help one another out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hoshour]

Like I said, we are always looking for feedback, but the only good feedback is specific and constructive. Anyone can bash an MRS, the issue is, what can they contribute that is specific and backed up with hard information?

 

[woodtick]

I'm not bashing the MRS I'm providing cold hard facts. I'd suggest in future writings to not even bring up the extended CV archery deal unless they make some drastic changes that include the East side of the valley where all the big bucks rut.

 

[shedhead]

I have noticed the same things as have been mentioned with the Utah MRS. I understand that there may have been a source consulted for the Wasatch elk unit, but to say the Wasatch is an up and coming elk unit is VERY misleading. I don't personally care that 2 bulls over 400"were killed last year. What you are failing to understand is that plenty of 400" bulls have been killed off the Wasatch over the years and the frequency of 380" bulls being killed has gone down dramatically in recent years. Just because 2 bulls over 400 were killed does not make it an up and coming unit. Talk to people that live and hunt this unit every year, they will tell you that the huge increase in cow tags for the past few years is having an impact on the elk herd. While one source may have a great opinion of a unit, many other guides residents that live on the unit would wholeheartedly disagree. I would encourage Eastman's to strive for a better understanding of a unit quality than simply talking to one person.

On that note, Panguitch lake has kicked out 3 bulls over 420" in the past 3 years, does that make it a great hunt or up and coming unit? Why was that not communicated in the MRS? I understand many factors go into the blue/green chip rating, but talk to anyone that has hunted the Wasatch archery hunt in the past few years and ask about the pressure they had to deal with from spike and cow hunters. This hunting pressure is overbearing at times and has ruined many peoples hunts, including close friends of mine. That fact alone can offset any blue chip rating in my mind. The West Desert hunt is a very tough hunt because of the Indian reservation. The majority of the elk move right onto the reservation as soon as any hunting pressure arrives and then have no reason to leave. I would expect that to be a large factor in calling that a blue chip unit.

In the trophy quality forecast, the San Juan late rifle is rate as excellent and the San Juan early rifle is rated as good. Seriously? The San Juan early rifle is rated as just good trophy quality? This is one of the best elk hunts in the world! How can a rut hunt with a rifle have a lower trophy quality than a mid November rifle hunt?

I had concerns with the MRS for Utah last year, after seeing this 2 years in a row I honestly have to question the information I read on other states as well.

 

[Elkhunter96]

Thanks for responding Dan. I really don't want step on anyone's toes or get into an argument about the list. I simply and respectfully disagree on several of the units listed. I would hate to have a hunter go to a unit and find out it's not what they thought it was going to be. I will try and reply below.

I understand the size of the elk isn't the only criteria for blue chip vs green hip. nor should it be. Quality of the herd, public access, etc etc, are all important.

The Wasatch unit does kill one or two big bulls a year. I won't dispute that. However, the Utah DWR gives out over 600+ limited entry elk tags on the unit. A few years back, the numbers were a lot less. A small portion of hunters on the Wasatch tag out on quality bulls. Plus, the archery elk hunt in Utah over laps with the general archery deer hunts. Causes tons of pressure issues.

I actually have spent most my life in the Wasatch unit area and can assure you, it is not an upcoming unit. There are winter range issues with private land owners, and the DWR lowered the age objectives a few years back while substantially increasing tags have changed that unit. Not too mention increasing cow tags and adding the late season hunt have brought quality down It is designed to be more of an opportunity hunt than a premium hunt. It's designed to be a good hunt for mostly younger bulls. I posted the age objectives below,

https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/elk_plan.pdf

I am not an expert on every unit in Utah, but have hunted personally, or been on several units listed helping friends/family, or had people, I know hunt those units.

Anyways, I have made my point. I could explain why I, and many locals, would not rate deep creek as a blue unit. Same with diamond mtns. Also could explain why San Juan and several others are true blue chip units. San Juan has been one of the best hunt in the state for many years, same with Pahvant. Lots of bulls, remote and very little pressure.

 

[Cobbhunts]

Just be sure to include a note as to why each unit should be rated that way. Reputation, i.e. "everybody knows" is not a good reason.

It is a great idea to let members share any insight into the MRS that they may have. My only qualm is about this statement above though....


Particularly when Dan said this below. You guys basically contradict each other. Dan is using hearsay, but you won't accept it from anyone else that would be interested in contributing. Dan's source versus a members source, or local information as stated by so many above.

There has been a 400" bull taken the last two years out in the southern part of this unit according to my source.

 

[Fastphin]

First off, I just want to say I've always been a fan of Eastman's and subscribe to it for help on states I hope to hunt in the future. Now, I have to question their write ups in all states. I am not one to criticize, but I couldn't hold my tongue on this one.

The blue chip units listed for UT elk are way off. Fish lake in no shape way or form is a better unit than pahvant. W desert deep creek is not a blue chip unit. I'm guessing w Deseret deep creek was mixed up with the SW desert unit?

For archery, Wasatch and south slope diamond mtns are not even close to being on the same level as San Juan, Monroe, pahvant, etc. Actually, diamond mtns is one of the lower rated hunts in Utah, even if you buy access to private land. Wasatch is a 280-320 class bull hunt with a very few bigger bulls taken.



I could go on and on.

Please go on. Im a non resident getting in shape and planning now for Utah. Either way I'm hunting there whether its the general OTC backcountry or other.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

The Utah MRS for elk does need a lot of work and what it needs more than anything is someone with a lot of experience in the state writing MRS for that state.

I am in the max point pool as a non-resident, and there is a reason virtually every non-resident in my pool is waiting for the early rifle San Juan hunt and has for the last several years. I am not sure you can find a better limited entry elk hunt on the planet right now. I follow nearly all of the UT limited entry units and have since the mid 1990's. I continue to closely watch the upper tier units to see if I should jump ship and draw. I also closely follow the mid tier units for a tag for my wife with fewer points.

 

[MWScott72]

The Wasatch unit does kill one or two big bulls a year. I won't dispute that. However, the Utah DWR gives out over 600+ limited entry elk tags on the unit. A few years back, the numbers were a lot less. A small portion of hunters on the Wasatch tag out on quality bulls. Plus, the archery elk hunt in Utah over laps with the general archery deer hunts. Causes tons of pressure issues.

I actually have spent most my life in the Wasatch unit area and can assure you, it is not an upcoming unit. There are winter range issues with private land owners, and the DWR lowered the age objectives a few years back while substantially increasing tags have changed that unit. Not too mention increasing cow tags and adding the late season hunt have brought quality down It is designed to be more of an opportunity hunt than a premium hunt. It's designed to be a good hunt for mostly younger bulls. I posted the age objectives below,

https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/elk_plan.pdf

The above info is spot on w/r/t the Wasatch, and I would consider that good info. The Wasatch is a good unit, but nowhere near blue chip - not in UT anyway. For all the reasons listed above, the unit is on the decline - not one on the rise. I too was surprised at some of the green vs. blue listings. A friend of mine had the Pahvant early rifle tag last year, and you would be hard pressed to find a unit where it's easier to kill a 350+ bull, yet Fishlake is put above it? Again, Fishlake is a good unit, no doubt, but NOT the Pahvant. The Wasatch is no where near the Pahvant either in overall quality, BUT if factors such as number of tags allocated is figured in, you have a much better chance at drawing the Wasatch. Just realize that quality of animals and numbers of them are way off on the Wasatch.

I have noticed in past MRS editions (not just UT) that often, the info seems to be regurgitated from previous years. I understand that some units are not going to change, so there's no need to reinvent the wheel on those units. Some of the info presented just seems off though, and when it is carried year over year, that should say something. I doubt this is the first time some of the unit rankings in UT have been called into question.

 

[nunt'nbutmuleys]

I think Eastmans and or any other source that trys to help fellow hunters with the application process is just a starting point to do your own research. It's a BIG ORDER to try and figure all the in's and out of various states. I would say look at your publications that you subscribe to find areas that might interest ya then go from there and research yourself. I know for a fact hunting fool does same thing may not be right in our opinion but from there sources and experience may lead them to rate areas certain ways JMO. Lots of personal research go's along ways!!!!