M/L Breech Plug problem

[Timberstalker]

Hey guys, I have an issue. I have Winchester X-150 muzzle loader. The breech plug has been stuck in it for 2+ years and it aint comming out! I've tryed everything but a machinist, which is the next step. The one that's in it is going to be destoryed in the removal proccess. The problem is I am having a tough time finding a new breech plug. I believe it is the same breech plug as the CVA #11 but not 100% sure. No one around here sells the CVA plug so I will have to order it. Anyone here ever deal with the same issue?

 

[Cobbhunts]

Man O' man that's a problem. I don't have any experience with that ML. I hope you can get it lined out. Have you tried applying a little heat via a butane torch to the breech?

 

[Musket Man]

Is it rusted in? Was it not cleaned after shooting it? I have had mine get stuck before even though it was cleaned and had anti seize on it and had to put it in a vise and get a socket and breaker bar on it. I got a round brush to clean the threads and have not had any problem since.

 

[Timberstalker]

It must not have been cleaned well enough. I haven't shot it in 7 years. A friend of mine used it last 4-5 years ago and I didn't try to remove it till a couple years later. It doent have a socket type head on it, it's just a notch that a key tool fits in to spin it out. The notch is stripped badly now so no way the tool will work. It's going to have to be drilled and possibly an EZ out will work. If not it will have to be drilled to the threads then cleaned up.

 

[Timberstalker]

I've tried heat and all kinds of pentrating oils, the last thing I tried was soaking it in ATF... for a year.

 

[Musket Man]

Im not familiar with this ML. Is it a bolt or break action? Is the back of the BP pretty exposed? If it had enough room I would weld a nut on it and get an impact gun on it. I have dug alot of broken bolts out that way.

 

[Timberstalker]

No way to weld one on MM, that does work!

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I'll tell you a trick we used to use in the aerospace business. Extreme cold. We used liquid nitrogen, the extreme cold actually shrinks the metal. I know you probably can't get any LN, but this works pretty good instead. Add several oz of alcohol to the barrel and add dry ice chips. After this soaks for awhile, empty everything out and add heat from a propane torch. The contraction/expansion might do the trick.
It is probably a given that the plug will be destroyed while your are trying to get it out, regardless of the method. Have you contacted Winchester or Brownells to see about a new one? Call CVA and ask out theirs as a replacement. A machinist can remove it and chase the threads pretty easily.

Good luck.

 

[Timberstalker]

That sounds like a great trick CC. I wish I would have known that one before I stripped it, it's beyond repair already. Calling the gun guys is on my list of to do's today. Thanks for the input!

 

[Hilltop]

Muzzle loaders are pretty cheap these days.... I think I would start over if it were me. By the time you pay a machinist or gun smith you will have likely spend half the cost of a new gun.

 

[Timberstalker]

That thought has crossed my mind. I have a brand new .45 cal barrel for it that only needs the breech plug, I may try that too.

 

[Timberstalker]

New breech plug is on the way, $16 + shipping. Worst case I will be shooting a .45 cal this fall. Thanks for the input guys!

 

[okielite]

I've got one of the same guns, kinda a POS if you ask me. Is there no way to use flat screwdriver socket on an impact wrench to pull it? Don't waste a lot of $ on it as you can by those guns for next to nothing these days. I had trouble with ignition on the factory plug so switched over to a CVA plug and it seem to do fine now with 777.

Not sure if it is really rusted in as the barrel and breech plug should be stainless.

Might be able to get a large easy out that would fit right into the primer pocket and get a bite. Another thought I had was driving a torx bit into the primer pocket. Something like a t-40 should be a pretty close fit. Or welding a nut to the plug. No matter what you do try to use and impact to do the removal instead of just a ratchet.

The idea of using heat and cold might work as well. Just remove the stock and scope and you should be able to get pretty aggressive.

 

[Timberstalker]

I've got one of the same guns, kinda a POS if you ask me. Is there no way to use flat screwdriver socket on an impact wrench to pull it? Don't waste a lot of $ on it as you can by those guns for next to nothing these days. I had trouble with ignition on the factory plug so switched over to a CVA plug and it seem to do fine now with 777.

Not sure if it is really rusted in as the barrel and breech plug should be stainless.

Might be able to get a large easy out that would fit right into the primer pocket and get a bite. Another thought I had was driving a torx bit into the primer pocket. Something like a t-40 should be a pretty close fit. Or welding a nut to the plug. No matter what you do try to use and impact to do the removal instead of just a ratchet.

The idea of using heat and cold might work as well. Just remove the stock and scope and you should be able to get pretty aggressive.

The gun may be a POS to you but it's does what I need it to do. It has only been shot about 40-50 times and is like brand new other than the breach plug issue. I had the plug removed for $40 a new CVA plug was $17 I'm pretty sure I can't buy a new "better" muzzle loader for $57 thank for the input though.

 

[okielite]

The gun may be a POS to you but it's does what I need it to do. It has only been shot about 40-50 times and is like brand new other than the breach plug issue. I had the plug removed for $40 a new CVA plug was $17 I'm pretty sure I can't buy a new "better" muzzle loader for $57 thank for the input though.

I apologize. I didn't mean to be rude but that is the way I came across. To be more clear from my research this was not a terribly popular gun and it had some issues including barrels blowing up with heavy charges. I've had ignition problems and have had a couple of misfires while hunting which has caused me not to like the gun. Even getting primers in and out of these is fairly difficult compares to most other muzzleloaders I have shot. The stock also has a very cheap feel and from what I have read was never a terribly accurate muzzleloader. I've tried many bullets and have not found anything that will shoot terribly accurate in mine. Seems that is why the gun was not made for long and no other manufacturers copied the designs and also why they can be had for less than $200.

That being said you may have had a much different experience and really like the gun. Hope the barrel switch works out.

http://forums.huntingresource.com/topic/8413-winchester-x-150-problems/
http://www.chuckhawks.com/winchester_X150.htm

 

[Timberstalker]

No worries Okie. I know it's not the best one out there, but here in Oregon drawing a good muzzy tag takes 5-12 years so spending a bunch of money on something I rarely use wasn't in the cards when I bought it, still isn't. I would love the have the best equipment and weapons for hunting, but I don't and likely never will. I seem to do just fine with what I do have though.

 

[okielite]

No worries Okie. I know it's not the best one out there, but here in Oregon drawing a good muzzy tag takes 5-12 years so spending a bunch of money on something I rarely use wasn't in the cards when I bought it, still isn't. I would love the have the best equipment and weapons for hunting, but I don't and likely never will. I seem to do just fine with what I do have though.

I hear ya. It has gotten ridiculously expensive to have top of the line gear these days. I still do just fine with my $20 wranglers instead of $300 Sitka/Kuiu/UA pants.

So what powder do you shoot out of your x-150? I tired Blackhorn 209 but never could get good ignition so I switched to 777 pellets and it works fine.

 

[Timberstalker]

I hear ya. It has gotten ridiculously expensive to have top of the line gear these days. I still do just fine with my $20 wranglers instead of $300 Sitka/Kuiu/UA pants.

So what powder do you shoot out of your x-150? I tired Blackhorn 209 but never could get good ignition so I switched to 777 pellets and it works fine.

It's been so long since I shot it I cant remember off the top of my head, loose powder Pyrodex something or other. 209 primers are illegal here in Or so I use musket caps.

 

[Cobbhunts]

I hear ya. It has gotten ridiculously expensive to have top of the line gear these days. I still do just fine with my $20 wranglers instead of $300 Sitka/Kuiu/UA pants.

So what powder do you shoot out of your x-150? I tired Blackhorn 209 but never could get good ignition so I switched to 777 pellets and it works fine.

Typically....95% of the reason you aren't getting good ignition with BH209, is because of the design of the breech. The other 5% is not using a hot enough primer. The best primers I've found are RIO brand. Followed by the Winchester (blue box). BTW, make sure you're using actual shotgun primers if you're trying the BH209.

Glad you got the plug and barrel lined out!!!

 

[okielite]

Typically....95% of the reason you aren't getting good ignition with BH209, is because of the design of the breech. The other 5% is not using a hot enough primer. The best primers I've found are RIO brand. Followed by the Winchester (blue box). BTW, make sure you're using actual shotgun primers if you're trying the BH209.

Glad you got the plug and barrel lined out!!!

I tried the factory breech and a CVA breech and never could get the blackhorn to ignite. Tried several primers and never could get it to work. But the same primer and breech plug in my CVA accura shoot every time. I'm not sure what the problem is but when I switched to 777 pellets I have not had a problem. I still shoot the blackhorn in my other muzzleloader and it works great.

I didn't have any problem with my barrel or breech plug. That was the OP.