Is he 200"? over 30"?
- Thread starter ColoradoV
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Hilltop
Veteran member
fackelberry
Active Member
My guess is this buck doesnt have 8 inches of deductions! Looks pretty symmetrical, his right G-4 is a litttle shorter than the left and his right main beam looks to be shorter. I don't see 8 inches of deducts though. I'm hoping my original guess is close! So lets get some numbers, that way i will know if i need to practice judging more deer! LOL.
Hilltop
Veteran member
8 inches is a very small deduction, from my experience, and represents a pretty symmetrical set of antlers. Keep in mind the number of measurements taken- doesn't take many small differences to really add up. With 19 measurements taken on this buck, that only averages out to .44" difference on each of the 18 potential different measurements (no opportunity for deduction on the spread).
fackelberry
Active Member
I think we can bank on neither of the brow tines to be over an inch long, so that knocks down the possible measurements to 16 different ones! And of all the bucks i have shot and have measured for other people, .50" of mass difference per side per measurement is a noticable differnce. It takes a palmated beam or abnormally large beam as compared to the other side. I dont see this anywhere on this buck. This buck is a fairly symmetrical buck, well in my book. I am still staying with my 8" or less deduction guess. Time will tell.
side note: I have seen the same deer scored 4 different times by 4 different people and all have different scores. Alot of people don't know EXACTLY how to score antlers. But you have to use the score sheet from the OFFICIAL scorer as the score. Right or wrong!
side note: I have seen the same deer scored 4 different times by 4 different people and all have different scores. Alot of people don't know EXACTLY how to score antlers. But you have to use the score sheet from the OFFICIAL scorer as the score. Right or wrong!
Hilltop
Veteran member
28" outside, 185ish gross. His backs fork pretty low and are great. His fronts though are just good, not great. Heck of a buck and an instant shooter where I've hunted!
I compared him to the one on the wall that makes 200" and he is a real similar frame. His fronts are a shade weaker, his backs fork a shade higher, and his brow times are considerably weaker plus he has no extra points. He looks wider by an inch or two and may have better main beams.
I'm sure no expert, just taking a stab at it. I've read Mike Eastman's books and he says great fronts make up for bad backs but it takes incredible backs to make up for weak fronts. The buck I shot last year grossed better than expected and kinda illustrated that for me, his back on one side forks really high. I might be low on my score but with just decent fronts and no brows that's my guess.
I compared him to the one on the wall that makes 200" and he is a real similar frame. His fronts are a shade weaker, his backs fork a shade higher, and his brow times are considerably weaker plus he has no extra points. He looks wider by an inch or two and may have better main beams.
I'm sure no expert, just taking a stab at it. I've read Mike Eastman's books and he says great fronts make up for bad backs but it takes incredible backs to make up for weak fronts. The buck I shot last year grossed better than expected and kinda illustrated that for me, his back on one side forks really high. I might be low on my score but with just decent fronts and no brows that's my guess.
MtnBuck
Member
MountainHigh
Active Member
How long do we have to wait to find out............? Spill the beans as stated by Hilltop, I am not impatient or anything!
- Oct 4, 2011
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This buck was so very grey and it is hard to describe how big of a body he had. Did not get too much footage of him with other deer but he was a big bodied deer or sure. I think he is a good example of how hard it is to get to bump north of the 200" mark as a typical. He did have the wow factor in person as every so often he would hang out with another large typical that a hunter got and the hunter said his buck went 196". This buck dwarfed the 196" buck in person.
Before the season I put him at 29 and 99/100ths wide as it is kinda a jinx to say a buck is over 30" right? Lol.. He ended up being a quarter inch over 31" wide outside. I had him at 190+ in the gps notes and the hunter said he ended up at 194". As some guys have mentioned he did not have that many deductions and both his g2's were over 22". Another inch each on his front forks and brows the he goes over. To me he was pry the most impressive buck I have seen on the hoof in the past couple of years and that includes a 215"+ NT that I have some pics of and he ended up on the cover of eastmans about a year ago. But then again I am a sucker for a tall wide typical.
Sorry for the wait just been working some long days and now have a few off.
Before the season I put him at 29 and 99/100ths wide as it is kinda a jinx to say a buck is over 30" right? Lol.. He ended up being a quarter inch over 31" wide outside. I had him at 190+ in the gps notes and the hunter said he ended up at 194". As some guys have mentioned he did not have that many deductions and both his g2's were over 22". Another inch each on his front forks and brows the he goes over. To me he was pry the most impressive buck I have seen on the hoof in the past couple of years and that includes a 215"+ NT that I have some pics of and he ended up on the cover of eastmans about a year ago. But then again I am a sucker for a tall wide typical.
Sorry for the wait just been working some long days and now have a few off.
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BOHNTR
Very Active Member
MountainHigh
Active Member
- Oct 4, 2011
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- 935
Bo - I am not sure if they did my numbers are from off the hill right after the buck was killed. So not official by my knowledge.
The guys who got him have a fair bit of experience on bucks of this caliber so I took them at their word and I saw the width measurement as well as the g2.
The guys who got him have a fair bit of experience on bucks of this caliber so I took them at their word and I saw the width measurement as well as the g2.
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fackelberry
Active Member
So all of the measurments were green score and not on an official score sheet? I take it this buck was shot hard horned also? Is there any way you could get an official "net" score sheet. I would love to see actual numbers on this deer, because i think i hit the nail on the head with the score. HAHA! And not saying the guy who shot it doesn't know how to score, but i have seen alot of so called "scorers" be off alot more than the OFFICIAL score sheet. Im sure BOHNTR can back me up on this since hes an official scorer, i'm sure he has had people tell him what they have measured a animal at and come to find out it was way less than they thought? It's kinda sad to see the dissapointment on their face when the buck was scored by a buddy at 185 and then get officially scored at 175. Again, not doubting the hunter in this bucks case, specially if he has shot a few close to that, I really just want to see the numbers and compare them to my guestimates I had. Thanks for the videos though, what an awesome buck. And awesome thread for all of us to "practice" our skills on! We should do more sometimes as it is fun!!!!
- Oct 4, 2011
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When I posted this I knew the buck was not over 200" or that should be pretty evident as I did not see that scouting him and I wondered if anyone would not underestimated the width. Also a 200" net typical is just about a unicorn these days so much so I wonder how many folks have even see one on the hoof . I guess my intention was to show that every monster does not go over 200" and I would have taken this buck all day long over a few that did tip north of that mark.
Yep all my numbers are green from right off the mountain and to me it seems unwarranted to strip a buck of velvet just to put it in a book or for a "official" score.. Again just my opinion and to each their own. The first video was taken 1 day before the buck was killed.
We will not see a official score sheet as I doubt it exists. When talking about score in general on the hill with the hunters while packing this deer out it was interesting for me to listen to their perspective on score, what it means, what it is about, and why anyone would even officially score a deer. I doubt you have to worry about a sad face when these boys walk up on a buck lol or I believe the numbers from the hill. We all agreed that this was a huge deer that final score would not do justice. Another reason I though the discussion on this buck would be interesting.
So in the end this was a huge buck that was over 31" wide but not over 200". Hope to find another one just like him to chase around again this fall.
Yep all my numbers are green from right off the mountain and to me it seems unwarranted to strip a buck of velvet just to put it in a book or for a "official" score.. Again just my opinion and to each their own. The first video was taken 1 day before the buck was killed.
We will not see a official score sheet as I doubt it exists. When talking about score in general on the hill with the hunters while packing this deer out it was interesting for me to listen to their perspective on score, what it means, what it is about, and why anyone would even officially score a deer. I doubt you have to worry about a sad face when these boys walk up on a buck lol or I believe the numbers from the hill. We all agreed that this was a huge deer that final score would not do justice. Another reason I though the discussion on this buck would be interesting.
So in the end this was a huge buck that was over 31" wide but not over 200". Hope to find another one just like him to chase around again this fall.
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mntnguide
Very Active Member
Curious if you remember what his inside spread that counted was?
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bigmoose
Active Member
I'm still trying to figure out how I under estimated him. Must have been the height with those 22 inch G2's and he's got to have a real big head with long ears along with that extra large body. It would be cool to hold those antlers or to walk up on him after the shot and find out that he's so much bigger than I imagined. Congrats to the hunter !
I've never seen a buck with 22 inch G2's. His overall height must be over 25-26 inches. Amazing !
Any field photos that you could share ?
I've never seen a buck with 22 inch G2's. His overall height must be over 25-26 inches. Amazing !
Any field photos that you could share ?
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fackelberry
Active Member
I agree with you ColoradoV, net 200" is a rare case indeed. I dont think i have ever seen one in the wild. And i understand some people dont 't want to have their deer officially scored or put into any record book. I think sometimes people don't want the publicity or all the questions that go with that. That's their decision though. I think it's totally up to the hunter what he wants to do with it. I think on some rare occasions some hunters won't enter a buck because of "other technical" reasons.
I personally don't like velvet on the antlers. maybe i'm different but it's not for me. I agree they look neat when it's all intact and smooth but alot comes off in the process of caping and packing out. I have personally shot 2 deer with my bow that were in velvet. and had both stripped. The downside to that is their antlers are white and have to darken them up or they look odd and not natural i guess. Again like you said just my opinion.
I wasn't meaning the hunter who took this buck would have a sad face, i was talking about a few other hunters in general. I also agree i would of shot this buck anywhere and it is an awesome deer. Everyone has their own idea of what a big buck is to them, as the saying goes " beauty is in the eyes of the DEER holder"
I did enjoy this thread alot, Thanks ColoradoV for posting and hope we can do this again.
I personally don't like velvet on the antlers. maybe i'm different but it's not for me. I agree they look neat when it's all intact and smooth but alot comes off in the process of caping and packing out. I have personally shot 2 deer with my bow that were in velvet. and had both stripped. The downside to that is their antlers are white and have to darken them up or they look odd and not natural i guess. Again like you said just my opinion.
I wasn't meaning the hunter who took this buck would have a sad face, i was talking about a few other hunters in general. I also agree i would of shot this buck anywhere and it is an awesome deer. Everyone has their own idea of what a big buck is to them, as the saying goes " beauty is in the eyes of the DEER holder"
I did enjoy this thread alot, Thanks ColoradoV for posting and hope we can do this again.
Colorado bucks are really easy to underestimate, they are typically pumpkin heads that can throw guys from out of state off. It's kind of funny around here in the fall when stories are coming in, we can usually guess where a buck came from by pictures. If the thing has a milk jug for a head there is a very good chance it came from CO.
Growing up judging G/H bucks here in Wyoming I would have underestimated him for sure.
Growing up judging G/H bucks here in Wyoming I would have underestimated him for sure.