Interesting Spin on WOLVES!

[BuzzH]

those numbers are so far off based. do they all line up for them to be counted? no, population of wolves is much higher is my belief. as far as lions go... yeah pop is high there too but wolves cause far more destruction then the big cats do.

Then take it up with the Idaho Game and Fish...pulled right from their wolf recovery report along with population numbers for lions as well as the per year kills by wolves and lions both.

If you can find better data from somewhere, by all means post it up.

BTW, there were 75 more wolves removed by APHIS in Idaho in 2015 as well, on top of the hunting/trapping.

 

[ivorytip]

that's just it, we cant base numbers and statistics on something that's impossible to count. the numbers they post of lion and wolf kills is nothing at all but an estimate, more like a guesstimate. if wolves had something to offer the ecosystem id say hell yeah. they bring more bad to the table than good. if they weren't these non native wolves id even be more supportive. I'm just not a wolf fan

 

[ivorytip]

What other game laws are you willing to break? What other game laws are others allowed to ignore?

As to Idaho's wolf management, I think they do a pretty good job of legally managing wolves. From 2006-2015 they have been able to hold wolf numbers below 900. The population seems to have stabilized at about 750 down from a high of 856.

Long trapping and hunting seasons for ID hunters to enjoy, multiple, inexpensive tags. Tough to make the claim that Idaho isn't managing them correctly.

If I were a resident of Idaho I would be much more concerned about the population of 2500 mountain lions than 750 wolves...

Using the best available science, each wolf kills about 22 ungulates per year...advanced math 22x750=16,500 ungulates a year killed in Idaho by wolves.

Using the best available science, each lion kills about 52 ungulates per year...more advanced math 52x2500=130,000 ungulates a year.

What I've never understood is the outrage over wolves "killin' all the elk and deer", when lions are killing 8x as many ungulates in Idaho per year?I'm all for controlling predators, but in this case, if the outrage is over predators...well, being predators and killing wild ungulates, I would address the biggest source of predation.

Instead, logic, reason, facts, and accountability goes out the window when its wolves...just don't get it.

This is a very valid point. Very valid.

 

[BuzzH]

that's just it, we cant base numbers and statistics on something that's impossible to count.

Every GF agency in the West does it every year, for deer, elk, moose, sheep, goat, furbearers, ducks, grouse, pheasants, trout, crappie, bass,....etc. etc.

Quotas, season length, bag limits, all that is done using a population estimate for every species hunted in Idaho.

Like I said, if you have better data than that being provided by the State Agency that is charged with managing ID's game...I'm sure they would be interested in talking to you about it.

I put a lot more faith in those charged with managing the States wildlife than the "data" provided via the seat of a barstool...

Plus, if you look at the wolf quotas set by the IFG, the stable population, and consistent wolf harvest over the last 5+ years, I think their estimates of total population are very close to reality. If their population estimates were that low, it would be reflected in an increase in harvest from year to year. The data suggests that harvest and population are both flat...

 

[Musket Man]

The states are required to use the minimum number of wolves, the wolves they actually count. I have no doubt the actual number is 2 or 3 times that. Even if Idahos wolf population was 750 that is a long ways from the 100 the state is required to have. We cant kill enough of them by hunting. All we are doing is killing enough to make them more productive

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

All we are doing is killing enough to make them more productive

And a hell of a lot smarter.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I've seen tag numbers plummet in Grand Teton park after the wolves got established. Tag numbers and Elk numbers actually. I quit hunting the park after seeing more wolf and grizzly tracks than elk tracks. The owner of the Heart Six Ranch told me that the wolves had decimated a herd of deer that he had hanging out above his ranch, he said there were only a couple left. So Elk aren't the only thing the wolves eat....that comment from a Resort/Ranch owner who is an honest man. I don't trust G&F animal counts at all. But that's just me.

 

[ivorytip]

I agree, wolf harvest results wont rise with population growth. these aren't dumb animals.

 

[kidoggy]

I agree, wolf harvest results wont rise with population growth. these aren't dumb animals.

sure they are .it's just that most of those that hunt em are even dumber.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree, wolf harvest results wont rise with population growth. these aren't dumb animals.

I disagree...as wolf numbers increase, they disperse into less favorable habitat, which is usually areas that are more accessible to hunters.

More access to wolves, the more that get shot and trapped.

Same is true with deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. etc.

 

[Huntinguy0120]

With all due respect, this video is nothing more than propaganda for those who align with the anti-hunting movement. It flat out ignores the primary reason why a majority of the hunting community and why many HUNTER's subscribe to this forum.. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I imagine a lot of people are here to inquire, solicite or brag about their triumphs and tribulations in the pursuit of western big game (deer, elk, moose.) something that is being decimated by the federally protected wolf.

What I feel, and I think a lot of others could relate to, is that we all recognize that any type of wolf is a wolf. I don't care to distinguish between the different species or sub-species, quotas, their rank on the predator list, or how they are perceived by the Public for their "scientific" benefit to civilization.

I only know what I see, and I'd think a lot of folks here would agree, is that many of our sacred places are now boneyards with decimated herd populations in our desired states, zones and/or areas. Don't get me wrong, I love to harvest and provide for my family, but it's the experience why I choose to spend weeks at a time in the outdoors. if you hunt a private or public area that hasn't changed or been impacted since the early 90's, I hope you are grateful because I am extremely jealous. In a perfect world, I would much rather take my family on a trip to Jackson Hole to the National Elk Refuge to educate my sons on big game and to see all the elk, deer, moose, bighorn sheep, antelope and bison one hundred times over driving around Yellowstone park trying to spot a wolf that has eaten up or caused all those other animals to hide.

In my opinion, these two could not be further from opposites. The wolf is abusing the welfare system by repopulating without consequence all while the river would have to and will always find a way to persevere on it's own.

 

[AdamUSmith]

Yeah I saw this list in YouTube few days ago.

 

[ivorytip]

I disagree...as wolf numbers increase, they disperse into less favorable habitat, which is usually areas that are more accessible to hunters.

More access to wolves, the more that get shot and trapped.

Same is true with deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. etc.

there is no lack of habitat here in Idaho. either way, if you are right you are right and if I am wrong I am wrong on that. but what it comes down to.... what good do wolves do for the ecosystem? like for real good. I see more bad than good taking place and for that reason alone the wolf has no mercy from me. as far as numbers of wolf harvest goes, the kill numbers are so much higher than is reported, that is no secret to anyone. there are many wolves killed that never get reported year long. I hear this "if you are willing to break the law with the SSS concept then what law aren't you willing to break". that is so bogus. that's the same as saying if you are willing to drive 5 miles over the speed limit you are probably willing to rob a bank. if I can see a benefit from having the wolves ill be the biggest advocate. show me something outside of the Park and a lot of us guys will have a different heart.

 

[Tim McCoy]

In most states it is legal to kill dogs harassing stock. I know a couple folks in wolf country that have had to put several dogs down lately, great big brown ish ones with no collars... But a local intelligent govt. employee was kind enough to explain to a rancher I know, very clearly 2-3x, that if one happened to have a big collar, they reported once every 24 hours at about mid-night... More than one way to skin a cat I guess.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

The thing that bothers me about this whole wolf debacle is the lying, underhanded way the government officials (NPS, USFS & Federal Fish & Wildlife) have used the Endangered Species Act to bring wolves to Yellowstone NP. These wolves are not and have never been endangered. Nobody in our Congress has intestinal fortitude enough to take these people to task about this situation. I am sure Congress never meant this law to be used in this manner. I really makes me sick to see what has happened.

 

[rammont]

Then take it up with the Idaho Game and Fish...pulled right from their wolf recovery report along with population numbers for lions as well as the per year kills by wolves and lions both.

If you can find better data from somewhere, by all means post it up.

BTW, there were 75 more wolves removed by APHIS in Idaho in 2015 as well, on top of the hunting/trapping.

That's funny, you act insulted when somebody questions your numbers but it was OK when you questioned my numbers and I got mine from the Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks.

Since we both quoted reports from different state game and wildlife agencies and the numbers that we got from those reports don't agree, is it any wonder that nobody trusts or believes the experts that you seem to be so enamored with.

The basic fact is that wolves serve the same function on land that sharks do in the sea, they thin out the weak animals to help keep the herds healthy. That worked well when there were tens of thousands of animals all over the Midwest plains and the western mountains, the herds were so large that there were a lot of weak animals that the wolves could prey on. But nowadays the herds are already smaller and as a result they are healthier than they used to be so the wolves are no longer needed, at least not in the numbers the experts claim they should be. There aren't as many weak animals that need culling and there isn't enough of a natural food supply for the wolves to eat. Wolves are survivors and their numbers will grow beyond the ability of the herds to support so the herds will be decimated. When wolves run out of wild game to eat they will start on domestic animals (and they obviously have in Montana), and the time will come when they start going after smaller two legged animals - which is exactly why wolves were decimated by hunters in the 1800's.

It's simply a case of the real biologists mismanaging the animals because they missed a very basic reality, the reality that the system is so complex that you can't really control it, you can tweak it here and there but you'll never be able to accurately predict how animals will adapt or react. And the truth is that the wolf numbers grew far faster than they expected, that's why the states that received the transplanted wolves were the first to approve hunting them, they have suffered the most damage from the rapid growth rate.

 

[mnhoundman]

Well said rammont!! It's not brain science they need to be managed or they will eat everything, it's obvious as there are more wolves they need more to eat right?? Or am I missing something! Only reason there not allowing hunting is because they don't want to fight the anti's, which is bull. There above the numbers they wanted! So start shooting!

Oh and what was so wrong with the eco system before the wolves? Nothing some one just thought it would be nice to see a wolf. When there are no animals left in Yellowstone for people to come and see except grizzlies and wolves, watch the profit margin fall and see what happens. ( Sad, probably nothing)

I would also like to know how they count wolves, do they fly over and they all run out in the open so they can count them? I think not, elk and deer are more to run out and be seen. Not wolves in that rugged country, there not stupid. That would be like saying they count coyotes!!

 

[kidoggy]

funny how folks think a government agency can keep track of wolves when they freely admit they cannot even keep track of illegals crossing our borders.

 

[meathunter]

Video is such a bad spin and completely wrong on the wolf debate. That was certainly done by people who don't have a sense of reality and twist anything to be pro wolf. I like to hunt and provide food for our family. Wolves have severely damaged elk & deer populations around here. Shoot all the wolves you can! legally, of course.

 

[WELDO]

Hhhmmm and just like that the Yellowstone eco system is back to normal ! BS!