Interesting Spin on WOLVES!

[dan maule]

Our forefathers were not stupid they eradicated wolves for a reason, as cool as it may be to see one on occasion we need shoot the heck out of them before it's too late. Any form wildlife that is not managed becomes a problem.

 

[BuzzH]

Our forefathers were not stupid.

Have to disagree, they actually were pretty damn stupid. If not for some pretty fast action by some forward thinkers, our forefathers were about to eradicate elk, deer, pronghorn, bighorn sheep, bison, waterfowl, etc. etc.

Wolves are being managed, and thankfully the hysteria has cooled.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Wolves are being managed, and thankfully the hysteria has cooled.

Sorry...IMO they are being terribly MISMANAGED. The wolf numbers (population) should be tied to deer, elk, moose and other animals they feed on (including domestic livestock damage). When the population of the ungulates & livestock damage reaches a certain level, then all methods of take on wolves should kick in, including aerial shooting, trapping and bounties. When their numbers drop, then the management reverts to previous levels.

 

[BuzzH]

Wolves have been trapped, snared, shot, and aerial gunned since reintroduction.

Still are, what more do you want?

Did you buy your ID and MT tags and do your part?

 

[Musket Man]

I want them at the minimum numbers in the wolf recovery plan. We have been far beyond that for years.

 

[BuzzH]

Wolf tags, like talk, are cheap, get after it...

 

[Musket Man]

I have had a wolf tag in Idaho and been out hunting every year since they were delisted

 

[BuzzH]

Do any good?

I've had MT and WY(when they were available) tags...haven't shot one yet.

Odd since according to every barstool biologist, they "seen more wolves than elk"...

 

[Musket Man]

I have seen tracks but no wolves where I have been

 

[Horsenhike]

As soon as I heard that accent I knew what the narrative would be. No reason to listen any further.

May be closed minded, but at this point, years of leftist propaganda shoved down my throat coupled with a British accent have left me pretty intolerant.

 

[kidoggy]

Wolves have been trapped, snared, shot, and aerial gunned since reintroduction.

Still are, what more do you want?

Did you buy your ID and MT tags and do your part?

now your a wolf lovin lib? yup . you are one swell advocate for wildlife?lol.rock on an SAVE THE WHALES!!!

 

[kidoggy]

I want them at the minimum numbers in the wolf recovery plan. We have been far beyond that for years.

I'LL GO A STEP FURTHER. I WANT EVERY WOLF IN IDAHO DEAD SO WE CAN RETURN TO what we had here before out of staters forced them on us against our will.

 

[kidoggy]

Do any good?

I've had MT and WY(when they were available) tags...haven't shot one yet.

Odd since according to every barstool biologist, they "seen more wolves than elk"...

I've seen plenty of both. many ,many more elk, sure that is true. I have also seen firsthand many, many more wolf killed elk then I have seen live wolves. if you love em in your state fine . stay the f$%^ out of mine.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Only wolves I've seen in the wild was in Wyoming in 2011 when I did a trip to Thorofare in the Teton Wilderness. The outfitters camp was within 5 miles of the SE corner of Yellowstone. We saw plenty of wolves and heard them every day. The elk population was way down and only saw 2 deer during the trip. My guide said moose were down too. Saw lots of big bones also, could have been elk or moose. The wolves have really cut down the elk & deer for sure. Lots of grizzlies too.

If I ever see a wolf here in Colorado....SSS for sure, if I get the chance!

 

[BuzzH]

If I ever see a wolf here in Colorado....SSS for sure, if I get the chance!

What other game laws are you willing to break? What other game laws are others allowed to ignore?

As to Idaho's wolf management, I think they do a pretty good job of legally managing wolves. From 2006-2015 they have been able to hold wolf numbers below 900. The population seems to have stabilized at about 750 down from a high of 856.

Long trapping and hunting seasons for ID hunters to enjoy, multiple, inexpensive tags. Tough to make the claim that Idaho isn't managing them correctly.

If I were a resident of Idaho I would be much more concerned about the population of 2500 mountain lions than 750 wolves...

Using the best available science, each wolf kills about 22 ungulates per year...advanced math 22x750=16,500 ungulates a year killed in Idaho by wolves.

Using the best available science, each lion kills about 52 ungulates per year...more advanced math 52x2500=130,000 ungulates a year.

What I've never understood is the outrage over wolves "killin' all the elk and deer", when lions are killing 8x as many ungulates in Idaho per year?

I'm all for controlling predators, but in this case, if the outrage is over predators...well, being predators and killing wild ungulates, I would address the biggest source of predation.

Instead, logic, reason, facts, and accountability goes out the window when its wolves...just don't get it.

 

[rammont]

BuzzH, your snarky, know-it-all attitude makes it difficult to believe that you're anything other than a troll but assuming that you simply have a confrontational attitude I'd like to address a few of your remarks.

1. Barroom biologists - are you claiming to be something more qualified? Maybe a basement biologist?
2. There really is a problem - Montana has an organization called the Livestock Loss Board, they attempt to help farmers and ranchers recover their losses to wolf and bear depredation. Their records show that cattle depredation due to wolves has doubled since last year, that's data collected directly from ranchers and farmers, not statistical averages or estimates.
3. Not seeing wolves - just because most people don't see wolves doesn't mean that there isn't a wolf problem. At least one report states that there are almost 2000 wolves in the Northern Rocky Mountains (NRM) as of 2015 (there were approx 663 wolves in the same area in 2002). Even with hunting being allowed in the NRM the wolf populations are averaging about 100 more animals per year.
4. Doing your part - actually I have two points here; first that we shouldn't have to do our part if the federal biologists had been more accurate about the growth rates and impact of wolves, and second, we are doing our part as proven by the fact that almost 300 wolves were legally harvested in 2015. Of the 5 states that had wolves reintroduced hunting really only is allowed in 2, Idaho and Montana. The other states do not allow or restrict hunting wolves to such a degree that hunters aren't really having any impact. So, by law, less than half the area that has had wolves reintroduced is available for hunting, in other words, hunters aren't even allowed to help control the problem in most states where the problem exists. Trying to redirect the argument against hunters is intellectually dishonest and simply a straw man argument.
5. Hunting is allowed - not as easy as it sounds. Fist of all, at least in Montana, you can't hunt wolves from the air, you can't hunt them at night, you can't use electronic means to hunt them, and you can't use dogs to hunt them - I suspect that Idaho has pretty much the same rules. While hunting is allowed the reality is that wolves are just about the toughest hunt that you'll ever engage in, you have to travel a lot of territory and you have to be spend a lot of time looking through optics. Most hunters can't even come close to having the health and stamina that it takes to hunt wolves so challenging the average hunter to just go out and hunt a wolf shows that the challenger is either ignorant of the realities of hunting wolves or once again just being intellectually dishonest and simply trying to provoke people in to an argument.

 

[dan maule]

Hunting has been shut down here in upper Michigan hunters reporting more wolf sightings than deer in some countys during this years deer season.

 

[BuzzH]

rammont,

The biggest problem is that very few, if any facts are ever brought to any discussion of wolves.

Even your "facts" are suspect...hunters did not kill 300 wolves in Idaho and Montana in 2015, they killed 478...271 in Idaho and 207 in Montana.

Also, what 5 states had reintroductions? Not sure if you're jumping around the entire country or specifically talking about the NRM?

This is the problem, nobody bothers to research and those pesky facts don't seem to matter. The sad part is, its right at our fingertips and only a phone call away if we care to take the time.

I do...and why these type of threads always leave me shaking my head in disbelief over the pure BS that is presented. In fairness, with so much BS that is thrown around as "fact" by many that haven't a clue, I understand why its hard to sort the mess out (BS from both sides of the issue, BTW).

Sources need to be considered and there is plenty of good data out there being provided by the MT and ID Fish and Game Departments as well as the Wyoming Game and Fish.

To answer your question, no I'm not a professional biologist, but have been involved in the wolf issue since the late-80's. I attended the scoping meetings, talked at length with many of the leading biologists, etc. etc. Still in contact with many of them even today.

I also ran a fairly extensive trap line in Montana for a decade+ and trapped every furbearer in the state except wolverine, including one of the last lynx ever legally taken in Montana. I moved to WY before trapping was allowed for wolves, or would have tried that too.

It would be nice if facts were presented in these discussions instead of SSS, we need to wipe out wolves, wolves are eatin' all the elk, etc. etc.

Montana and Idaho at least have the opportunity to influence correct management, yet most fail to do so...cant ever understand why?

Last I checked, hunting isn't supposed to be easy...for wolves or otherwise. When you look at the number of wolf tags sold, VS. the number of elk and deer tags sold in MT and ID...its pretty apparent a vast majority of hunters are not willing to even buy a cheap wolf tag. Pretty tough for me to listen to the whining, when they aren't even doing their part to buy a tag just in case they run into a wolf.

Pretty good numbers of wolves are shot incidentally while people are out hunting elk and deer...yet most are without a wolf tag. Again, makes no sense.

 

[ivorytip]

What other game laws are you willing to break? What other game laws are others allowed to ignore?

As to Idaho's wolf management, I think they do a pretty good job of legally managing wolves. From 2006-2015 they have been able to hold wolf numbers below 900. The population seems to have stabilized at about 750 down from a high of 856.

Long trapping and hunting seasons for ID hunters to enjoy, multiple, inexpensive tags. Tough to make the claim that Idaho isn't managing them correctly.

If I were a resident of Idaho I would be much more concerned about the population of 2500 mountain lions than 750 wolves...

Using the best available science, each wolf kills about 22 ungulates per year...advanced math 22x750=16,500 ungulates a year killed in Idaho by wolves.

Using the best available science, each lion kills about 52 ungulates per year...more advanced math 52x2500=130,000 ungulates a year.

What I've never understood is the outrage over wolves "killin' all the elk and deer", when lions are killing 8x as many ungulates in Idaho per year?

I'm all for controlling predators, but in this case, if the outrage is over predators...well, being predators and killing wild ungulates, I would address the biggest source of predation.

Instead, logic, reason, facts, and accountability goes out the window when its wolves...just don't get it.

those numbers are so far off based. do they all line up for them to be counted? no, population of wolves is much higher is my belief. as far as lions go... yeah pop is high there too but wolves cause far more destruction then the big cats do.

 

[mnhoundman]

Can't hunt them in Minnesota either!! So dam many in Wisconsin you can't hardly chase bear anymore without getting dog's killed by them pathetic pricks, so yeah people need to start killing them!

We have had hounds killed here chasing bobcats, dog's will be treeing a cat and the wolves sneak in and tear them apart. Dog's don't have a chance. I just don't see any hunter can like wolves, don't make sense!!

This topic gets heated every time it gets brought up, there is always one person who loves the beautiful wolf. Like they say, there is a reason we killed them all years ago.