Grizzly / Wolf question

kidoggy

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Apr 23, 2016
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idaho
I guess the only person who does not understand the real purpose of these PETA type organizations existence is Greta Thunberg and even she's starting to realize how the world works
HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) :LOL:
 

tim

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Jun 4, 2011
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north idaho
one thing i find funny, is that, these discussions always go the same way.
so why don't you think we need large predators?
How many of you have actually seen any large predators out hunting, not heard, or saw sign. but actually seen wolves or grizzlies?

The one i always laugh at, is that predators just like to kill. And i think, just like some humans. So is it, we don't like the large predators, because they are competition?

AS far as pets go, cars probably kill more pets than the local predator.
I know, not popular thinking on here.
 

kidoggy

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Apr 23, 2016
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idaho
one thing i find funny, is that, these discussions always go the same way.
so why don't you think we need large predators?
How many of you have actually seen any large predators out hunting, not heard, or saw sign. but actually seen wolves or grizzlies?

The one i always laugh at, is that predators just like to kill. And i think, just like some humans. So is it, we don't like the large predators, because they are competition?

AS far as pets go, cars probably kill more pets than the local predator.
I know, not popular thinking on here.
I've seen wolves and cougar while hunting . have killed cougar . may kill me a wolf one day also but I really don't have any particular desire to target them. maybe if I were younger and still dumb enough to camp out in sub zero temps. :D ain't run cross no griz yet.



competition might be the biggest reason for some., though I have still been able to manage to fill my tags most years .

my main concern is the states are not allowed to manage them in a competent way. I really don't believe they serve any real purpose anymore but I am not totally opposed to a few being around . that said ,I find it completely and utterly foolish to let them decimate the herds as they have been allowed .


Idaho is way beyond the introduction goal. it is time to open the season year round ,no tags , no limit. they will not be exterminated in just a few years and if they do drop below what IDAHO(insert your state of choice) deems an acceptable population, we can always put restrictions back on them.
 
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AKaviator

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Jul 26, 2012
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Anchorage Alaska
I understand and support introducing some species into different environments because I see a benefit to it. Kodiak Island for example, only has 6 species of land mammals native to the island. The introduced species include Sitka Blacktail deer, Caribou, Mountain Goats, Elk (on Afognak island) all of which are thriving and heavily used by residents and non-residents alike. People are managing the animals thru well regulated hunting seasons and doing just fine at it. And I'm very happy to help!

Introducing wolves there, or any other apex predator, would not benefit anyone or anything. (No one is suggesting wolves be brought there: example only.)

I fail to see any benefit in introducing or re-introducing any major predator to environments that they don't already inhabit. We don't need them to help us manage other species. Hunters are fully capable and willing to do the management under well reasoned and science based season and bag limits. Fish and Game departments usually do a pretty good job of it...not perfect, but pretty good generally.

Some people argue the "natural balance" as an issue and point towards our National parks as their examples.. I argue back that there has not been a "natural balance" since whenever humans over-populated the environment. Parks take one apex predator that can be managed... humans, out of the equation, and replace them (us) with a predator that can't easily be managed, (wolves).

I do accept a natural expansion of predators into new areas, wolves included, but active management has to be on them too. For these groups that file lawsuits to put wolves on landscape that they don't already inhabit, and then fight against well-regulated management of them, is simply ludicrous, in my opinion. Who or what benefits, other than the wolves who have unsuspecting prey?
 

tim

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Jun 4, 2011
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north idaho
it is good to see some discussion on this, besides kill them all.
I am probably one of the most neutral peeps you can find on the wolf. I have no problem with them, but i did buy a couple of tags the first day, you legally could in the state of idaho.

I want to say it was ak aviator that told me i should howl back at wolves when i hear them. I did that a couple of years ago and had one very cool expierence howling back and forth with them. I actually called one in, but i ran out of daylight to do anything. It was wierd walking and riding my bike out of the area after the last set of howls. I howled and one of the wolfs in the pack howled back with tone. Where are you?
that will stick with me for a long time. The whole encounter of howling back and forth, probably went for an hour. It was also one of the most wierd night rides out of the area on my bike. I have actaully been lucky to have a few encounters with them.

now what i find interesting, is my trail cam. I get all kinds of predator pics and elk and deer pics. Trying to speculate why they all live in the same drainage is tough.
 

kidoggy

Veteran member
Apr 23, 2016
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it is good to see some discussion on this, besides kill them all.
I am probably one of the most neutral peeps you can find on the wolf. I have no problem with them, but i did buy a couple of tags the first day, you legally could in the state of idaho.

I want to say it was ak aviator that told me i should howl back at wolves when i hear them. I did that a couple of years ago and had one very cool expierence howling back and forth with them. I actually called one in, but i ran out of daylight to do anything. It was wierd walking and riding my bike out of the area after the last set of howls. I howled and one of the wolfs in the pack howled back with tone. Where are you?
that will stick with me for a long time. The whole encounter of howling back and forth, probably went for an hour. It was also one of the most wierd night rides out of the area on my bike. I have actaully been lucky to have a few encounters with them.

now what i find interesting, is my trail cam. I get all kinds of predator pics and elk and deer pics. Trying to speculate why they all live in the same drainage is tough.
what's tough about it???????????? predators follow their prey. if the prey changes drainages , so does the predator.
seems very simple to me.
 
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RICMIC

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Feb 21, 2012
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Two Harbors, Minnesota
We have had our hunting shack in the Minnesota Northwoods since 1968, and have generational experience with the ebb and floe of deer populations and wolves. MN never dropped below an estimated 350 wolves, and now has 2,400 - 4,000. The first number is the official federal F&W estimate, while the second number is from a private conversation with one of the feds actually doing the survey.
For over 45 years we had good and poor seasons, but always saw deer and shot our share. When the wolves were active, the deer laid low for a while before becoming active again. The story is clear to read by the tracks in the snow. The last six years the deer have become non-existant, this was initiated by a couple bad winters, but in my opinion the predators have hugely impacted any recovery. Now, even the wolf tracks are mostly gone, likely moved on to where they can still find something to eat. The MN DNR official estimate for bucks in the area that I hunt is 0.5 per square mile with all deer at 1.2 - 1.5 The last pack that was sighted by one of our hunters had 13 animals in it, at the generally accepted number of 19 deer per wolf per year; = 247 deer killed by that one pack = all deer (using the high est. 0f 1.5 psm) in 163 square miles. Our large bear population has an impact too, but is mostly young fawns that never are observed. Four winters ago while snowmobiling area lakes, we found 6 deer kills and two moose kills, all since the most recent snow from a few days before. Discouraging; thank God that I get out west once or twice a year.