- Jul 8, 2015
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Grim Odds.
- Thread starter mallardsx2
- Start date
JimP
Administrator
If you look at any non residents odds in any state and most of them are so far out there that you need to be a young man to start putting in.
However, Utah works on bonus points and not preference points in the LE and OIL hunts. Plus if there are more than just 1 tag offered 50% go to the top holders and 50% goes to a general draw. Every year people with a lot fewer than max points draw out on these hunts. I know a person who drew a LE deer tag with only 5 points where even residents need 10+ to draw generally.
However, Utah works on bonus points and not preference points in the LE and OIL hunts. Plus if there are more than just 1 tag offered 50% go to the top holders and 50% goes to a general draw. Every year people with a lot fewer than max points draw out on these hunts. I know a person who drew a LE deer tag with only 5 points where even residents need 10+ to draw generally.
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JimP
Administrator
Me too, but not very much. However a non resident can put in for all the OIL and LE animals for just a $10 application fee where residents can only put in for on OIL, and one LE.
WapitiBob
Veteran member
- Jul 8, 2015
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- Jul 8, 2015
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I noticed today that Utah is making some changes. Especially some changes dealing with prefrence points. I wish Colorado would impliment some of these changes...
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Go to page 153 for explanations.
Finally a fair system. If you get a tag, you loose your points. I like it! It will be great for us people who only want to hunt there a few times in our lifetime. It will reduce point holders in waves if they are wanting to hunt but I worry what kind of wave it will create in other states.
Will be interesting to see the draw results this 2020 season.
Finally a fair system. If you get a tag, you loose your points. I like it! It will be great for us people who only want to hunt there a few times in our lifetime. It will reduce point holders in waves if they are wanting to hunt but I worry what kind of wave it will create in other states.
Will be interesting to see the draw results this 2020 season.
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JimP
Administrator
The nice thing about Colorado's points is that there are only animal specific points. Elk points are just elk points, bull or cow they are the same points.
Utah on the other hand has both bonus points and preference points. Cow tags are separate from bull tags and doe points are separate from buck points
In Colorado if you want to use your 20 elk points on a cow instead of a bull then go ahead. In Utah you can have 20 bull points and 20 cow points.
I would much prefer Colorado's point system over Utah's any day of the week for parity to all those putting in for tags
Also on another forum it's being debated on just how the draw and tags are going to be affected.
I'm waiting until the regs actually come out to read the changes to see just what they are
Utah on the other hand has both bonus points and preference points. Cow tags are separate from bull tags and doe points are separate from buck points
In Colorado if you want to use your 20 elk points on a cow instead of a bull then go ahead. In Utah you can have 20 bull points and 20 cow points.
I would much prefer Colorado's point system over Utah's any day of the week for parity to all those putting in for tags
Also on another forum it's being debated on just how the draw and tags are going to be affected.
I'm waiting until the regs actually come out to read the changes to see just what they are
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I wasn't even aware that there were doe points?? I wouldn't apply for one but that is interesting.
wildlife.utah.gov
How bonus and preference points work
Utah's bonus point system has been put in place to increase your chance of drawing a big game permit. Every time you apply for a limited-entry, CWMU or once-in-a-lifetime permit, and you don't draw one, you receive a bonus point for that species.
JimP
Administrator
Utah has points for everything that involves a draw. Most of the points are bonus points where there are a few that have preference points.
I have always said that a person needs a lawyer in the family to explain all of the draws in the western states.
I have always said that a person needs a lawyer in the family to explain all of the draws in the western states.
Wyoming is similar for NRs. There is a points pool where top point holders win a majority of tags. If you don't draw in the pool, you get kicked out to a random draw where points don't matter. If you draw, you lose your points in either pool.
JimP
Administrator
Utah is setting it to where if you purchase a OTC tag for what a draw was involved then you loose them.
Lets take archery buck deer for a example. There are a couple of units in Utah that always have left over tags after the draw, this is because the units are mostly private and getting access is quite hard. So hunter Tom put in for a unit that he know that he can't draw. The drawing is held and he gets a preference point. He then goes down and purchases a left over archery tag for one of the units that have left over tags. He then doesn't hunt the unit on the tag but does hunt the extended deer hunt in Utah which is along the foothills from Provo north to Bountiful (I believe). This way he doesn't have to spend his points on a unit that has leftover, gets a preference point and still is able to purchase a tag for a draw unit and then hunts a couple other units. All this was perfectly legal.
Now what the new regulations do is that when he goes and buys the tag so that he can hunt the extended units he looses all his points for the general deer seasons, be it archery, rifle, or muzzle loader. Same with doe deer, cow elk, pronghorn, and any other game animal that you have to put in for a draw for. It is my understanding that you only loose the points for the game animal that you put in for. But that it my interpretation it may be different.
Now for tags that do not require a draw like spike elk, or any bull elk it does not affect because they are only available over the counter and have no points either bonus or preference associated with them.
Confused now?????????????????????
Lets take archery buck deer for a example. There are a couple of units in Utah that always have left over tags after the draw, this is because the units are mostly private and getting access is quite hard. So hunter Tom put in for a unit that he know that he can't draw. The drawing is held and he gets a preference point. He then goes down and purchases a left over archery tag for one of the units that have left over tags. He then doesn't hunt the unit on the tag but does hunt the extended deer hunt in Utah which is along the foothills from Provo north to Bountiful (I believe). This way he doesn't have to spend his points on a unit that has leftover, gets a preference point and still is able to purchase a tag for a draw unit and then hunts a couple other units. All this was perfectly legal.
Now what the new regulations do is that when he goes and buys the tag so that he can hunt the extended units he looses all his points for the general deer seasons, be it archery, rifle, or muzzle loader. Same with doe deer, cow elk, pronghorn, and any other game animal that you have to put in for a draw for. It is my understanding that you only loose the points for the game animal that you put in for. But that it my interpretation it may be different.
Now for tags that do not require a draw like spike elk, or any bull elk it does not affect because they are only available over the counter and have no points either bonus or preference associated with them.
Confused now?????????????????????
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I understood it that also if you drew an OTC tag you lost your points for that species as well. But I may have taken that out of context as there is a lot of reading there.
I'll wait to see the regulations when they come out as well to make sense of it all I guess. It will be several years before I try to draw into Utah anyhow.
I'll wait to see the regulations when they come out as well to make sense of it all I guess. It will be several years before I try to draw into Utah anyhow.
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JimP
Administrator
Unless the OTC tag has a draw involved it doesn't come into play. Only if that tag was involved in a draw before it went to OTC.
The only big game tag that is over the counter in Utah are archery elk, spike elk, and any bull elk tags, and they have caps. Everything else is through the draw.
The only big game tag that is over the counter in Utah are archery elk, spike elk, and any bull elk tags, and they have caps. Everything else is through the draw.
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Interesting. I didn't read this before.
Starting in 2020, if you draw a limited entry buck deer permit, your waiting period will be five years before you can apply again for a limited entry buck.
Starting in 2020, if you draw a limited entry buck deer permit, your waiting period will be five years before you can apply again for a limited entry buck.
Alabama
Veteran member
Notice the economy went in the tank in 2007-2008. The odds for both residents and NR got better slightly in 2008 and for residents only in 2009. That's the year they expanded it where NR could apply for all species instead of one regular species and one once in a lifetime species. Odds for NR have plummeted every since and will only continue to get worse. I was 4 years late to the party and I think I might draw 2 tags in the next 20 years (besides general deer). I wish it would go back where you could only apply for one of each. At least you'd have some hope of actually drawing the 2 species you picked. Just wishful thinking I guess.
One thing I don't understand is how demand went down for both R and NR in 15 and 16. The economy was strong then, what gives?
One thing I don't understand is how demand went down for both R and NR in 15 and 16. The economy was strong then, what gives?
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I dont know what happened in 15 and 16 but I sure did notice the "2011 bubble in the hose" of LE point holders.