They did come off public land. I think I had this bull come in 2 yrs ago but the couldn't close the deal. He was a 5 then with super heavy top end. He is still somewhat weak in the lower half but he is gonna be a monster if we get a good spring. This winter was mild so I will keep my fingers crossed. There was a bull that wintered with this one that is just as big with split 4ths. 7X7 I haven't seen him in more than a week but I will be headed back up this weekend work permitting.