Colorado regulations are out

BKC

Very Active Member
Feb 15, 2012
835
163
The high plains of Colorado
The 2019 brochure is out and just want to get some opinions on what you are going to do with Moose, goat or sheep. Are you willing to opt in or opt out on the $50 resident , $100 non resident, application fee. The extra cash gets you a preference point or a weighted point. I'm sitting at max weighted points for Moose and have seen plenty of applicants with 1/2 the weighted points I have draw their bull tag. Does it do any good to have max points? I have my bighorn sheep and my goat on the wall and will not put in for them. I would like to still draw a desert bighorn, although they are strictly lottery and no points are awarded for them. Just wondering what everybody's take is on the new fee?
 

JimP

Administrator
Mar 28, 2016
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You always have a better chance at drawing if you have max points but once you have the required 3 preference points to get into the bonus point game it really becomes a real lottery.

I have never looked into just how Colorado weighs the bonus point pool. If you go into the draw with a higher number if you have max points or if you just get xxx more chances in the draw for each point that you have.

As for putting in I'll just get a point for deer and another one for pronghorn. I should draw my Wyoming pronghorn tag and don't want to screw it up with other hunts, but I also thought that last year. Plus I am having my brother in law come over from Utah to hunt second season in a unit where a resident needs 3+ points to draw, so I'll just tag along with him when he draws that tag. I might also go with a cow elk tag or general bull.
 

BKC

Very Active Member
Feb 15, 2012
835
163
The high plains of Colorado
I have never looked into just how Colorado weighs the bonus point pool. If you go into the draw with a higher number if you have max points or if you just get xxx more chances in the draw for each point that you have.
Jim, As I have read about it and had it explained to me, it is that the division randomly gives you a number. I don't know what the sequence of that number is or where the numbers start. Your number is then divided by your weighted points to establish a draw order number. If your draw order number is higher than the other applicants that has applied for the same unit, sex, date etc.... than you lose. So if I am randomly assigned the number 10,563 and you divide it by 18 then your draw order number is 586.83. If someone else gets 3,412 but only has 6 weighted points, they get a draw order number of 568.66. If they applied for the same tag as you then you lose. In units with only 2 and 3 tags, the odds are not in your favor. The way I see it is that the randomly assigned number is where you win or lose.
 

CoHiCntry

Veteran member
Mar 31, 2011
1,390
21
Colorado Mountains
I’m gonna keep getting the points. Who knows when they might change things again and I wouldn’t wanna short myself any points. It’s anyone’s guess if that will ever happen though? I’m guessing these new fees are gonna weed out a lot of applicants.
 

graybird

Active Member
Feb 22, 2011
388
119
Colorado
Jim, As I have read about it and had it explained to me, it is that the division randomly gives you a number. I don't know what the sequence of that number is or where the numbers start. Your number is then divided by your weighted points to establish a draw order number. If your draw order number is higher than the other applicants that has applied for the same unit, sex, date etc.... than you lose. So if I am randomly assigned the number 10,563 and you divide it by 18 then your draw order number is 586.83. If someone else gets 3,412 but only has 6 weighted points, they get a draw order number of 568.66. If they applied for the same tag as you then you lose. In units with only 2 and 3 tags, the odds are not in your favor. The way I see it is that the randomly assigned number is where you win or lose.
This is incorrect and not the way the draw is conducted.....

You are assigned a random number. Let's use 704059 This number is then inverted, or reversed to 950407.

Then, each of the numbers of 0 through 9 are randomly assigned a new number via a tile drawing. What the CPW does is add the tiles of 0 through 9 to a new drawing. The first tile drawn will replace all of the previous 0s, then second tile drawn will replace all of the previous 1s, etc. until all 9 tiles are drawn. Lets assume the tiles were drawn in this order ... 8, 6, 2, 7, 3, 0, 1, 9, 4 and 5. this would mean the numbers now equal: 0=8, 1=6, 2=2, 3=7, 4=3, 5=0, 6=1, 7=9, 8=4 and 9=5. So, now your previous number of 950407 becomes 508389. This number is then divided by your weighted preference points +1.

In my case, I'm at 3+11, so if the above were my number 508389/(11+1) = 42365 would be my place

Now let's use your 6 weighted points and assign that person a random number of 026920. Once inverted it becomes 029620. Now, switch out the numbers based upon the tile drawing their number becomes 825128. This then divide by 6 + 1 and their draw number becomes 117,875.

So, you'll notice that even with the original differences from a 704058 vs 026920 initial drawing number, what really matters is the tile drawing. That's where you get lucky with your final drawing order.

Hope this helps.
 

CoHiCntry

Veteran member
Mar 31, 2011
1,390
21
Colorado Mountains
This is incorrect and not the way the draw is conducted.....

You are assigned a random number. Let's use 704059 This number is then inverted, or reversed to 950407.

Then, each of the numbers of 0 through 9 are randomly assigned a new number via a tile drawing. What the CPW does is add the tiles of 0 through 9 to a new drawing. The first tile drawn will replace all of the previous 0s, then second tile drawn will replace all of the previous 1s, etc. until all 9 tiles are drawn. Lets assume the tiles were drawn in this order ... 8, 6, 2, 7, 3, 0, 1, 9, 4 and 5. this would mean the numbers now equal: 0=8, 1=6, 2=2, 3=7, 4=3, 5=0, 6=1, 7=9, 8=4 and 9=5. So, now your previous number of 950407 becomes 508389. This number is then divided by your weighted preference points +1.

In my case, I'm at 3+11, so if the above were my number 508389/(11+1) = 42365 would be my place

Now let's use your 6 weighted points and assign that person a random number of 026920. Once inverted it becomes 029620. Now, switch out the numbers based upon the tile drawing their number becomes 825128. This then divide by 6 + 1 and their draw number becomes 117,875.

So, you'll notice that even with the original differences from a 704058 vs 026920 initial drawing number, what really matters is the tile drawing. That's where you get lucky with your final drawing order.

Hope this helps.
All I can say is... huh???
 

graybird

Active Member
Feb 22, 2011
388
119
Colorado
Yup, it's a crazy system. My personal opinion is you had better hope your new number after the tile conversion,is for a low new number, otherwise your weighted preference points won't get you very far. It's all about the tiles.
 
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stumpy waters

New Member
Sep 25, 2015
19
0
What I am trying I figure out is why someone would apply for a preference point as their first choice, and opt out of paying the fee? The book says that is a option. Scratching my head over that one.

But there are not preference point fees for elk be deer. So why would you opt in?

I may need some of what they are smoking to figure this out. [emoji4]
 
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HuskyMusky

Veteran member
Nov 29, 2011
1,337
183
IL
What I am trying I figure out is why someone would apply for a preference point as their first choice, and opt out of paying the fee? The book says that is a option. Scratching my head over that one.

But there are not preference point fees for elk be deer. So why would you opt in?

I may need some of what they are smoking to figure this out. [emoji4]

Might be one of those... to screw some that aren't fully aware, policy ideas...??
 

taskswap

Very Active Member
Jul 9, 2018
523
379
Colorado
I think I can tell you that.

In Colorado you get four "choices" when you fill out the draw form. Your chance of getting a tag is a balance of the draw chance for that tag against which slot you put it in. For instance, a tag that takes a point to draw isn't going to you no matter what slot you put it in, unless you have a point. But for a tag that doesn't need points (and there are LOTS of them), a person who listed it as their first choice gets a higher chance than a person who listed it fourth. Makes sense so far, right?

Well there's a trick. If you list the SPECIES-P-999-99-P code as your FIRST slot you are guaranteed a preference point... but you still have a chance to draw a tag via your second/third/fourth! (Make sure you check the "leftover draw" box!) Basically, this guarantees you get a point, but you still have a chance at a tag. It's a lower chance, because it'll be your 2nd/3rd/4th choice slots. If you have a target zone you REALLY want, this isn't a great strategy. But if you don't care where you hunt that year - if you just want to build points and "hunt anywhere until I get my primo spot" you can pick high-chance options as your 2/3/4 options.

Consider GMU 38, for which a Rifle 2 Buck tag would be DM038O2R. Now, this zone is a wild patchwork of private and public land and it's not something you'd probably want to take a 5-day "dream hunt" trip to. But still, there are good deer here and it's a convenient day trip from those who live in Denver, an easy "weekend hunt" for fun.

Here's the 2018 Draw Recap summary for it. There was a quota of 300 head, but they didn't all draw - 114 were leftover.

Screen Shot 2019-02-22 at 1.47.56 PM.png

If you had filed for that tag you would basically have had a 100% chance of getting it, and no preference points spent. Is it a premium zone? No. Is it a fun day/weekend trip, maybe a great place to introduce your son or daughter to hunting or just get out of the house? Heck yes, and you can stop for lunch in Ned on the way home!

NOTE: Quotas change year to year so last year's report isn't a 100% guarantee, just a high likelihood.

If you're the type of hunter who just wants to build points for premium zones, or just wants to hunt a familiar spot every year, this strategy is not for you. But if you can say "I want to hunt every year SOMEWHERE, and every few years I'd like a more premium tag" what you can do is list:

D-P-999-99-P
whatTheHeckMaybeIllGetLuckyCode
highChanceCode1
highChanceCode2

This will A. Guarantee you a preference point. B. Give you a "I might get lucky" chance at a decent zone. C. If that fails, nearly guarantee you a tag at something at least to get you out of the house.

NOTE: Make sure you do not list codes that take points to draw as your backups unless you are OK spending yours. Like, don't list a 1-pointer as a backup-plan if you're saving for some 4-6 point zone down the road. It WILL use up your points even if you list the PP first.

Note that if you're clever and pay attention to the "lists" you can get TWO tags PLUS a preference point every year. Colorado has "A" and "B" list tags. You can get one A and one B, or two B tags (the book calls this "A+B or B+B"). B tags are usually easier to get so if you want to do this it's best to try to draw the A and go OTC for the B. Also although this isn't a hard pattern, it seems to me that more of the A tags are for good buck/bull areas and more of the B tags are cows/does. But not always.
 

JimP

Administrator
Mar 28, 2016
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Gypsum, Co
Well, I just got done filling out my Utah application and then swung over to the CP&W site.

They wouldn't let me apply then I saw that the application period starts March 1.

Well, at least I know what I am going to be applying for this year.
 

taskswap

Very Active Member
Jul 9, 2018
523
379
Colorado
Yep. Applications allowed starting March 1, deadline is April 2 this year. There's no "early filter" advantage though, so take your time.
 

CoHiCntry

Veteran member
Mar 31, 2011
1,390
21
Colorado Mountains
NOTE: Make sure you do not list codes that take points to draw as your backups unless you are OK spending yours. Like, don't list a 1-pointer as a backup-plan if you're saving for some 4-6 point zone down the road. It WILL use up your points even if you list the PP first.
Only first choice hunt codes use preference points. If you draw your 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice you don’t lose your points.