CO Muzzy Help

[tdcour]

I'm a first time muzzy hunter heading to Colorado this year for deer. I have a TC Triumph that I'll be using. Couple questions... 1. Is it worth upgrading sights? Are fiber optics going to be good enough for deer at 100-150 yards? 2. What type of powder, bullet, and primer combo would you recommend? I don't have much experience at all with muzzleloader hunting, so any advice would be appreciated. Also, how does everyone keep stuff dry? Going above timer so could definitely get into some rain.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

You are the only one who can determine what kind of sights are going to do the job for YOU. There is no substitute for range time, especially with a M/L. Same for powder/bullet combos. You need to do some serious shooting to see what shoots best for you and your gun.

 

[CoHiCntry]

I?d start with some BH209 powder and some Thor bullets (250 grain). I?m guessing a .501 size but you?ll need to check for sure.

Upgrading sights is up to you. See if you?re confident at 150 yards and go from there.

I wouldn?t be overly concerned with wet weather using an inline. Just use some common sense. They will usually go boom when needed. Not so much with a sidelock. Ask me how I know...

 

[JimP]

You just got all the real advise that you need.

Have you shot your ML enough to learn how to use the sights that are on it? If so there is no real need to change now. On the powder/bullets/primers you will have to decide that on your own with what your rifle shoots best. For Colorado I am shooting the same rifle with peep sights and a .501, 250 grain Thor bullet over 90 grains by volume of Pyodex and a Federal 209 primer and it is good out to 200 yards if I do my job

 

[RICMIC]

I shoot a similar load as JimP, and do love the Thor bullets and the 209 powder. I had good results with Hornady sabots in MN, but can't use them in CO. Bring some electrical tape, and after loading, tape the end of your barrel. I also put some tape around the hood on the front sight as well as the rear peep because I l know folks who have lost them at inopportune times. My last CO muzzy deer was shot at 204 yards, but that is as far as I would ever want to poke at with this set-up.

 

[sheephunter]

I still shoot a flintlock with real black powder and patched roundballs; I think one key to successful muzzleloader hunting is to know your weapon and know it well. That means shoot your gun A LOT before you ever head out with it. Backcountry hunting is no place to monkeying around with new stuff...practice, practice, practice. If I'm hunting muzzleloader I will also carry enough stuff with me to construct a minimalist shelter (a couple large trash bags will do) and be ready to hunker down if bad weather descends on you fast (it's a good idea to practice this as well before you actually have to do it).

 

[tdcour]

I guess I should preface that I've shot with iron sights a lot as a kid, but haven't shot them in a while. I'm pretty comfortable with iron sights, but just sure on the muzzy and shooting at deer instead of prairie dogs like I used to do. Range time is definitely on the docket ASAP. I'm just looking for a place to start. I do my own reloading of rifle and pistol ammo, but this is definitely different.

I'll take any and all tips!

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

There are lots of good options out there for bullets. I shoot Hornady bullets with blackhorn 209. I prefer sabots to the power belts.

If you are looking for more places to hunt Nebraska muzzleloader season runs all of december.

 

[RICMIC]

I wouldn't change your fiber optic sights until after you have done some shooting with them. I shot well with them on targets, but did install a rear Williams peep sight after finding that my aging eyes don't work as well as they once did. The front FO sight was easy to see, but it blocked most of the deer that I shot at 204 yards, so I later changed to a Globe sight. I used that set-up for a CO hunt last year, and found that I could aim more precisely, but did lose some of my low light aiming time. I have another MZL hunt this year, and will make a decision about which front sight to use after a lot more shooting in varying light conditions.
By using a chronograph, I found that the gain in velocity is minimal after 120 grains of powder, it was mostly more smoke and recoil, with some loss in accuracy. That is something that you have to discover for yourself. I've shot a couple deer with the Powerbelt bullets in MN, and tho they did the job, I can't say that I was entirely happy with them; hence my switch to Hornady sabots. Whatever you do, when you change any component, the entire equation may change and you have to spend time on the range. I also found that there is a big difference shooting out of a fouled bore, so after my final test shot, I clean it well, then fire a fouling shot before going on the hunt. Good luck and happy hunting.

 

[mallardsx2]

The front fiber optic pretty much covers an elks vitals at 150 yards doesn't it?

I would get something more precise if your planning on shooting out to 150 yards.

https://seeallopensight.com/products/mk1-original-seeall-open-sight

 

[JimP]

You really need to learn how to use a open or iron sights for those longer range shots. You don't want to put the front sight on where you want to hit but float it under the spot you want to hit which is different than a scope. That way you will always have your target in view without the site blocking it out.

My last bull elk was shot at 120 yards and I had plenty of animal to look at in my sight picture. 150 yards is just a few more steps further, but as the target gets smaller you err factor goes up.

 

[tdcour]

ricmic, what didn't you like about the powerbelts? Since sabots aren't legal in colorado I won't be able to use them. Dad likes the barnes saboted bullets, but he is going to have to change those now as well.

 

[JimP]

From what I have heard through the grapevine on Power Belts is that they will blow up on you if you hit heavy bone. This has been mostly on elk, deer are a different animal and the PB should work fine on them if you have a load for them that works in your rifle.

Right now if I was you I could contact Thor Bullets and get a sample kit to find out what size your barrel is. The kit doesn't cost a thing. Then once you have the correct size for the bore order some 250 grain Thor bullets either through them or another company that sells them, there are a couple out there. The Thor bullet is a Barnes full copper tipped bullet, I used a 300 grain one to bring down a big 5x6 bull elk. I hit him 3 times and only recovered one bullet on the far side. He was dead on the first shot but I have a belief that if a elk is still standing you keep shooting. This was from a range of 120 yards shooting 90 grains of Pyrodex.

 

[mallardsx2]

Do the thor bullets have fins on them now instead of a cupped bottom?

 

[JimP]

The ones that I have are a cup base but then I haven't purchased any in 3 years.

 

[RICMIC]

ricmic, what didn't you like about the powerbelts? Since sabots aren't legal in colorado I won't be able to use them. Dad likes the barnes saboted bullets, but he is going to have to change those now as well.

JimP called it about them "blowing up". In both cases, my MN deer were shot thru the ribcage and blew a baseball sized hole out the other side. I found chunks of lead inside the deer while butchering. I couldn't use the Powerbelts in CO, and shot my mulie with the Thor bullet. A lot of velocity was shed due to the 204 yard range. The bullet shattered the spine, and the deer rolled down the mt. to within 40 yards, and a kill shot to the neck ended it. I don't know if the result would have been different with Powerbelts, but the Thors and the 209 powder made for an accurate combo in my MZ.

 

[tdcour]

Thanks guys, for the barrel sizing, how do you know which one is the right size? Is it just how it slides into the barrel or is there some other way? Maybe its a dumb questions, but just wondering.

 

[JimP]

They will send you 4 different sized bullets ,500, .501, .502, .503 along with the instructions. They will tell you to start with the .500 size bullet and see how it goes into the barrel, then the .501 and so forth. You will actually find where one of them won't even start or you need a hammer to get it into the barrel. My TC Triumph takes the .501 size. Then once you know the size you can order them off of their web site or a couple of others that sell the Thors.

 

[tdcour]

Called them up and got the test pack ordered. She said her husband was out fishing and would hopefully get them in the mail today. Gotta love small businesses. Glad to give them my support once I find the right size.

 

[tdcour]

Another question, when ya'll are testing and sighting in loads for accuracy, what range are you shooting at? It seems like closer would be better for accuracy on my end, but further would be better to see bullet accuracy. Is it a standard 50 or 100 yards when finding the load your rifle likes or something other than that? I know shooter wiggle can add a lot of variability in the way bullets will group.

With a scope I usually test at 100 for load accuracy, but open sights I'm thinking it would probably be a little closer?