Best All-Around Muzzeloader

[Umpqua Hunter]

I own three Knight DISC Extremes because I live in what is likely the most restrictive state in the west. It is extremely accurate with 460 grain No Excuses conicals. My first gun shoots 2" groups at 100 yards. The second shot an 0.8" three shot group @ 100 yards before I took it hunting. The third one is still new and unfired. I have no doubt they will shoot sabots as well since that is what they are designed for. The Green Mountain barrels they use are top notch. You can get the "western" conversion kit to shoot #11 caps or muzzleloader caps, or shoot 209 primers with the standard set-up.

For a peep, I run a Williams FP Legend

For a front blade I use an XS Sights white patridge front blade.

By far the best open sights I have found after shooting numerous sights. I typically lose about 1" of accuracy at 100 yards compared to a scope. I particularly dislike fiber optic front sights.

I have an CVA Accura and an Optima as well. The Optima does not shoot conicals well. The Accura is very accurate with sabots.

I had planned to replace my first Knight with Optimas, the reason being break actions are far easier to clean and maintain than a bolt muzzy, but I had around 30% misfires with the first Optima (NW Edition). CVA replaced the rifle and the second would not shoot conicals well, so that wasn't a good patch for me her in Oregon and my desire for a multistate muzzleloader. To be fair only a few barrels are really good conical barrels. After that experience I bought two more Knights and I have been very happy with them.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Wouldnt trade my T/C ProHunter for anything its worth every $

I agree 100%.

 

[gonhunting247]

UH
I shoot an old Knight MK85 for use in OR also. I've found it shoots conicals very well also. I also run the Williams peep, although I haven't found a front sight I'm super happy with. I'll have to try the XS Partridge.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I'm not sure which ones to use, I would be brand new to muzzleloading so I am looking for opinions. I just know that Colorado doesn't allow sabots, scopes or pelletized powder.

In fact, in re-reading the regs it looks like a peep sight would also be off-limits, since they say, "Any muzzle-loading rifle or smoothbore musket with any sighting device other than open or “iron” sights is prohibited."

I do believe that "peep sights" are considered iron sights. In several other competitive shooting venues, this is the case. I think I'll call Denver and ask this question.

 

[xtreme]

My brother killed a nice ten point WT at 341 yds with his Savage ML10. It don't get any better but not legal everywhere. I am using a $25. Knight 45 cal and so far each shot is a kill. My scope is a Z5.

 

[ColoradoV]

Nice to see someone else shooting the no excuses bullet in 460gr. I shoot them as well and get good results.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I do believe that "peep sights" are considered iron sights. In several other competitive shooting venues, this is the case. I think I'll call Denver and ask this question.

Peep sights are considered iron sights and are legal. Just got off the phone and this is what they told me.

 

[hoshour]

I agree 100%.

What do you guys like about the T/C ProHunter?

 

[hoshour]

Umpqua, have you tried shooting Thors or FBPs in your CVA Accura?

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

What do you guys like about the T/C ProHunter?

It fits me well and balances great. Like the stainless steel construction and that it uses 209 primers. Also can take the breech plug out with my fingers for cleaning. I am still working on loads trying to get better than 2" groups. The only downside was the price as it was one of the most expensive I looked at.

I have just started shooting Thors working up a load with several different powders.

 

[CoHiCntry]

What do you guys like about the T/C ProHunter?

One thing to take into consideration whith a T/C is they are really built to shoot sabots. The QLA in the barrel has a bad reputation of not shooting Conicals very well. Some do though, so you never know. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[buckbull]

I have been shooting a Knight (BK92) since the early nineties. Its OK. I would most definitely buy something easier to clean. Its a PITA to clean. If you go the scope route, I recommend detachable rings. Not only to be able to take it off for hunting purposes but its nice to take the scope off before you clean the rifle.

fyi - I don't think savage makes the 10ML anymore.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

UH
I shoot an old Knight MK85 for use in OR also. I've found it shoots conicals very well also. I also run the Williams peep, although I haven't found a front sight I'm super happy with. I'll have to try the XS Partridge.

Just a quick one, it's a weird word, but the name is "patridge" rather than "partridge". I've never heard it before except for this sight.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Nice to see someone else shooting the no excuses bullet in 460gr. I shoot them as well and get good results.

I love 'em, and always keep a 2 or 3 hundred on the shelf. This year my Colorado bull was quartering to me, and it hit him in the front shoulder and exited just in front of his rear ham.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

I have been shooting a Knight (BK92) since the early nineties. Its OK. I would most definitely buy something easier to clean. Its a PITA to clean. If you go the scope route, I recommend detachable rings. Not only to be able to take it off for hunting purposes but its nice to take the scope off before you clean the rifle.

fyi - I don't think savage makes the 10ML anymore.

I really didn't care to clean mine, that's why I pursued the break action path. I finally got a peanut butter jar, filled it with Hoppe's #9 and I just toss in my bolt handle (remove the firing pin first), nipple, and breach plug and let it soak for a day or two. Then it's really easy to deal with.

I finally decided the more difficult clean-up was worth dealing with since it excelled at the other facets.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Umpqua, have you tried shooting Thors or FBPs in your CVA Accura?

I have fitted the Accura for Thors, but I am only using the Accura in states where I can shoot sabots. I am sold on the No Excuses bullet. It is exceptionally accurate. He casts them, then die sizes them to a precision diameter, so they have an easy fit for loading. Also the long heavy bullet still has a pile of energy at normal open sight shooting distances.

 

[CoHiCntry]

I just acquired a new in the box Knight Mountaineer this morning! Even though I'm not crazy about the bolt style guns I couldn't pass up the deal I got on this one! I have to admit you can tell Knights are really well built guns!

 

[CoHiCntry]

I love 'em, and always keep a 2 or 3 hundred on the shelf. This year my Colorado bull was quartering to me, and it hit him in the front shoulder and exited just in front of his rear ham.

I tried to use the No Excuses out of my Omega but never could get them to group worth a darn. I'm hoping to try them in the new Mountaineer I just got.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Just a word about cleaning.....

I know a lot of you think its a PITA as stated, but it is really not that hard. I shoot BP (and subs) in competition every month. I probably shoot between 2000 and 2500 rounds a month in practice and matches in revolvers, lever guns and shotguns. I clean at least 4 guns after every shooting session. I use Ballistol (diluted with water to a 50/50 solution). That's all I use. Because I don't shoot anything but cast lead bullets, no brass in the barrel to deal with. I clean all 4 of my main match guns in about an hour.

When I clean my T/C ProHunter, I take the breech plug out, spray it and wipe it down. Make sure the primer hole is clean (blown thru it with air), swab the barrel with a saturated patch, then a patch with light oil. Wipe it down and that's it. Pretty simple. Ballistol is a water soluble oil and really works well. I also use a good bore cleaner solution after 50 rounds or so. The barrel has to have more attention because B/P (& subs too) burn way hotter than smokeless powder. You get more brass and lead buildup in the barrel.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Someone once told me something interesting about muzzleloaders that shoot conicals well. They said that they tends to have deeper rifling. I don't know if that is true, but I think it makes sense, since it has to "grip" the soft lead bullet. As a result not all barrels are good conical barrels. The Green Mountain barrels used in Knight Rifles, and the old White muzzleloaders, and some of the TC traditional rifles seem to have the best reputations when it comes to shooting conicals.

I have also found if you use too much powder with a conical the accuracy goes nuts. The idea being that the soft lead will begin to strip away from the rifling and the accuracy goes out the window. Most of my rifles shoot conicals most accurately around 70-90 grains of powder. That might not seem like a lot of powder, but when I have chronographed it and did the math to calculate muzzle energy, the conical has far higher muzzle energy than a lightweight bullet in a sabot for an equivalent amount of powder. It doesn't take 100-120 grains of powder to get the job done. If you are in the sweet spot of around 80 grains with that 460 grain bullet, you will have all the energy you need. I used 85 grains of BH209 with the 460 grain No Excuses for my Colorado bull.