Annoys the crap out of me

[marcusvdk]

Fink, you made my point. I have a friend that guides for an outfitter that has this pricing scheme. 2 years ago he was guiding a client from out East when they found a huge muley (200+) and even though the guy had saved for his entire life, and was on his retirement dream hunt, he couldn't afford to pull the trigger on that deer. Was that right? Nobody knew that deer existed prior to the hunt and the guy was crushed and so was my friend. So much so that he quit guiding for them after that season. My point is the guy paid his money, they never knew that buck existed, and he couldn't afford to pull the trigger.

And they never saw that buck again.

that is so horrible. I would be so mad and pissed off after that scenerio. What a good way to ruin this guys experience and dream hunt.

 

[marcusvdk]

I think trophy fees should be illegal on public land. The wildlife belongs to the state and in a way the outfitter is selling animals that are not his to sell. Anyone with a valid tag could come along and legally kill that animal so who is the outfitter to tell anyone they cant kill that animal without paying X amount more. The guy that had to save for 5-10 years to go on his hunt should have the same opportunity with the outfitter as a guy that can drop another 10K without batting an eye.

I completely agree with you on this one MM

 

[extreme minnesotan]

I think trophy fees should be illegal on public land. The wildlife belongs to the state and in a way the outfitter is selling animals that are not his to sell. Anyone with a valid tag could come along and legally kill that animal so who is the outfitter to tell anyone they cant kill that animal without paying X amount more. The guy that had to save for 5-10 years to go on his hunt should have the same opportunity with the outfitter as a guy that can drop another 10K without batting an eye.

Agreed.

Wildlife belongs to the state only when it benefits them. What about when you hit an animal with your car? No one takes claim for it then, whether it be state or the private ranch that was home to the wild animal before it committed suicide. I know this is off topic and sorry about that, but what about animal attacks. Does the state pay for that? I bring this up because if someone got hurt on a private ranch by their livestock, pet, or something else isn't the owner responsible?

 

[CrossCreeks]

The whole deal of adding to cost to the size aninmal really makes me sick ! I have been lucky enough to be drawn for tags that I knew I might never get the chance to do again and so was able to afford a guide, but my senerio was like a lot of other lucky hunters, my guide made hold off on a couple of big bulls because he thought we could do better and we did. NO EXTRA CHARGE !!

 

[shootbrownelk]

What if...say a big bull or big buck bolts through the trees and a guy has only seconds to react? Does the guide call a "time-out" to assess the B&C score? What nonsense. You paid for the hunt, and the outfitter doesn't own the animals..the public does.
Although I know a few Outfitters who think they own them. Can you say "Hunting is becoming a RICH man's sport? My $0.02.

 

[Musket Man]

Agreed.

Wildlife belongs to the state only when it benefits them. What about when you hit an animal with your car? No one takes claim for it then

We are lucky the state doesnt charge us for killing their animal with out car, plus fines for killing it out of season with with no tag, not to mention the use of artificial light in many cases. LOL

 

[Sundowners@5?]

It seems to me that quite a few outfitters do it so they can keep their base price low, and then whack you with a mega surcharge, when, in the heat of the moment, you get the rare opportunity to knock down a big animal.

Who's gonna pass up a 380 bull, or a 200 inch mule deer, when he's standing right in front of you?!

Was the trophy fee or surcharge spelled out in the contract? Telling you verbally or upon arrival finding out about additional fee's doesn't cut it. Take a copy of the contract and notes of all verbal conversations with dates and time's. Good outfitters don't pull crap like this and the ones that do aren't in business for long!

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Was the trophy fee or surcharge spelled out in the contract? Telling you verbally or upon arrival finding out about additional fee's doesn't cut it. Take a copy of the contract and notes of all verbal conversations with dates and time's. Good outfitters don't pull crap like this and the ones that do aren't in business for long!

Here are a couple of websites (Canadian) that are high fenced and do hunts where you pay by the animal size. If you really want to see a lot of this type of crap, look at the Safari Club's magazine. There are a bunch in the area east of the Rockies. I joined SC Int when I was President of our shooting club because they gave us a nice donation for our range improvement program. Only one year as I knew it was not for me.

redmantrophygiggamehunts.com deer-valley.com

 

[Musket Man]

I was an SCI member for 1 year and knew it was not for me either..... I have nothing against them and I think they do alot of good things, I just couldnt get past all the big fences.

 

[Alabama]

This is the way they do it in Europe. I've never been there, but on all the shows I've seen they charge by the inch (probably by the mm as they use the metric system). Craig Boddington writes for a couple magazines and I recall him not shooting a giant ibex in Spain because he couldn't afford it. That resonated deeply with me. I probably couldn't afford it anyway (even if they didn't charge trophy fees) but I'll damn sure never hunt there as long as this practice continues.

Trophy fees on private land in the US are here to stay, but on public land they should have never existed. Wildlife is owned by the people. They are a common resource that should be managed by science and enjoyed by everyone: not just hunters, not just photographers, not just tree hugging hippies, but Everyone! Animals on Public land should not be exploited or profited from by individuals. A guide or outfitter should not get paid for the size of the animal. They should get paid for the camp conditions, food prep, scouting and knowledge of the land, and general hard work hunting trying to get the client an animal that he/she can be proud of. If they go above and beyond the call of duty to find, or just get lucky and stumble upon a world class specimen and the client kills it, then the client should tip well to show their appreciation.

Just my $.02

 

[shootbrownelk]

We are lucky the state doesnt charge us for killing their animal with out car, plus fines for killing it out of season with with no tag, not to mention the use of artificial light in many cases. LOL

Musket, you hit a cow here in Wyoming (Open Range) and You pay for the cow. I know ranchers who charge a "trespass fee" for hunting elk...but it's $100 more if it has any antlers. If that's not selling public wildlife, then I don't know what is.

 

[shootbrownelk]

This is the way they do it in Europe. I've never been there, but on all the shows I've seen they charge by the inch (probably by the mm as they use the metric system). Craig Boddington writes for a couple magazines and I recall him not shooting a giant ibex in Spain because he couldn't afford it. That resonated deeply with me. I probably couldn't afford it anyway (even if they didn't charge trophy fees) but I'll damn sure never hunt there as long as this practice continues.

Trophy fees on private land in the US are here to stay, but on public land they should have never existed. Wildlife is owned by the people. They are a common resource that should be managed by science and enjoyed by everyone: not just hunters, not just photographers, not just tree hugging hippies, but Everyone! Animals on Public land should not be exploited or profited from by individuals. A guide or outfitter should not get paid for the size of the animal. They should get paid for the camp conditions, food prep, scouting and knowledge of the land, and general hard work hunting trying to get the client an animal that he/she can be proud of. If they go above and beyond the call of duty to find, or just get lucky and stumble upon a world class specimen and the client kills it, then the client should tip well to show their appreciation.

Just my $.02

Hey Alabama, that observation you wrote is worth more than $0.02. Good stuff.

 

[Sawfish]

I have hired outfitters in the past, but have not done so in recent years because what most of them call "guides". A few years back I drew an Arizona Elk Tag. I have a friend that works for the highway department, and he recommended that I not hire a outfitter because the outfitters in that area were hiring anyone they could find for guides regardless of experience. Some had even offered to hire him, and his expertise was operating a road grader! As luck would have it, there was an unseasonal warm spell, and the elk all high tailed it for cooler areas (out of my zone). I called my friend, and he told me the outfitters were telling the hunters that If they wanted an elk (for their $5K) they had better shoot the first one they saw. A sad situation.

 

[AKaviator]

Your'e spot-on Alabama! I would never sign a contract with an outfitter that sold animals by the inch or score. Most of them would never give you a discount if you didn't get the quality of animal you wanted. They shouldn't be selling you an animal, just the opportunity to hunt that animal.

By the same token, if an outfitter does his job well and works hard to get what you contracted for, he doesn't owe you a free hunt or discounted hunt later if you don't score. He still earns a respectable tip.

I have never hired an outfitter but I probably will someday when I try an elk hunt. I have never hunted elk and have no doubt that most elk are smarter than me. Plus it's hard to do much pre-season scouting when you live up here and want to hunt Wyoming.

 

[Granby guy]

Alabama, great post.

Something to think about though... The eastmans elk hunt winner hunts on a ranch that has the format of charging according to inches.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Alabama, great post.

Something to think about though... The eastmans elk hunt winner hunts on a ranch that has the format of charging according to inches.

Which ranch is it?

 

[Granby guy]

The Hill ranch which borders the Bosque Del Oso

 

[ArmyArcher]

Legality of shooting any animal on publich land while assisted by a guide service was pretty interesting. Never thought of that point of view. All boils down to the signed agreement/contract.

In the example of the guide that quit the outfitter after the encounter with the 200+ mulie, one has to wonder how much business they may have lost out on due to this hunter's experience and not having the photos to show the potential and success of their service. After all the best advertising is from successfull former clients.

That's why I'm a DIY hunter and will be doing so in SW CO during the early archery season. Was also drawn this year for an AZ elk during second archery season.

There are some good folks out there that are fair and impartial while representing the underdogs. Keep looking and you'll find one you're willing to use.

Good luck, happy hunting, shoot straight, and aim small/miss small.

 

[Alabama]

Alabama, great post.

Something to think about though... The eastmans elk hunt winner hunts on a ranch that has the format of charging according to inches.

With what I said earlier about animals on public land, I'm not changing my mind but private land is essentially different. The animals belong to the state as a collective resource but they if they are on someone's land then they are feeding, bedding and breeding on private property. Landowners must be compensated to keep the land in a condition that is beneficial to the wildlife. Farmers must be compensated for the feed that the animals consume or eventually the benefit of the wildlife is outweighed by the cost to the landowner/farmer.

As hunters we all know that the best way to bring a species back from the brink of extinction or to increase it's numbers is to give it value. Hunting value is about the best way that I've seen. These are the basic principles of landowner vouchers in Colorado, CWMU's in Utah, landowner tags in NM, AZ, NV, etc. Are these the solutions to essentially ensure that wildlife have a future on private lands across the west, I don't know. Some people like them, some don't. I just know I can't afford them. I don't however have a problem with them if they charge for access to the land and the animals. I don't even mind if there is a difference in price male vs female. Males are inherently more valuable to hunters (speaking in general terms not trying to offend meat hunters--I love a good doe for meat). But pricing by the inch is ridiculous!

I will never go on a canned high fence hunt or a free range place where I have to pay based on size. I don't like the idea of charging by the inch on private land, but it is what it is. As long as there is a demand for it then it will continue.

If Eastman's was footing the bill for a free range, private land, charge by the inch elk hunt would I go? Sitting here behind this computer I want to say no but I can't. I don't like the idea of supporting it but sometimes the flesh is weak when temptation is so strong. And a giant bull elk for free is a STRONG temptation. Using my money no. Using Eastman's money yeah probably. Sorry guys just being honest.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

The Hill ranch which borders the Bosque Del Oso

I've seen a lot of hunting shows that were on the Hill ranch, but never really looked into any details about them. Generally most of the ranches that host TV stuff is way out of my price range.