advice on new Muzzleloader purchase

[BLGarrison]

I am looking to buy my very first muzzleloader for mule deer and elk. I am proficient with standard rifles and have hunted for many years but never with a muzzleloader. Could someone give me advice on a unit that will be good for long hard mountain hikes and easy to load, reload. I will be topping it with a Nikon bdc scope. Thank you in advance for the advice.

 

[Slugz]

BLG,

Welcome to the forum! Recommend you head over to the new members section and do a quick intro.

I'm a big fan of the Traditions Vortek Series of muzzleloaders with BH209 and Thor bullets.....unless you are in a state where you can go with pellets.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

The recommendation for a muzzleloader largely depends on what states you want to hunt with your muzzleloader. Do you want to optimize it for a certain state or two, or do you want one you can hunt every western state with? Will you be hunting with conicals and open sights or sabots and a scope only (the best sabot barrels are not necessarily the best conical barrels). The fact that you are topping it with a scope says you may want to optimize your set-up for states with minimal restrictions on muzzleloaders.

 

[BLGarrison]

I will be hunting NM and Colorado mostly.

 

[brianboh]

Cooper firearms just came out with a legit muzzy. Not sure if it is still made but Knight had a 54 caliber that held really good groups out at 200-300 yards. For the life of me I can not remember the model

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

If it was NM only probably the best muzzleloader you could buy would be an Ultimate muzzleloader, not cheap but it would be the optimum set-up for that state.

http://ultimatefirearms.com/modelsprices.php

For Colorado you can't shoot a sabot and will want to be shooting either a Thor bullet or a conical. Sabots like a fast twist barrel and conicals like a slower twist barrel. Most barrels today are are optimized for sabots. That can be overcome by shooting a longer heavier conical which stabilizes better in fast twist barrels. Conicals also seem to like barrels with deeper more aggressive rifling which help the rifling grip the soft lead bullet.

Lots of guys love the Thors for hunting Colorado. I have been shooting No Excuses conicals with remarkable accuracy out of Knight muzzleloaders and killed my Colorado bull with a No Excuses bullet. Not all barrels shoot conicals well, but Knights do. Knight barrels have traditionally been made by Green Mountain. I shoot Knight DISC extremes for all my muzzleloader hunting now since I can set up with a standard kit and shoot 209 primers or a western kit to shoot caps and I have a multi state muzzleloader. I have three DISC Extremes, one is unfired. The other two rival centerfires when it comes to accuracy.

Here is the link for the Thor bullets:

https://thorbullets.com

Here is the link for the No Excuses Bullets (I shoot the 50 caliber 460 grain bullet):

http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com

Knight DISC Extreme's will give you some of the best multi state capabilities. You can set-up with caps and a conical for Oregon, Idaho and Washington, with 209 primers and a conical for Colorado, and with 209 primers and sabots for states that allow it all. Some of the newer DISC Extreme's with the "western" kit have had issues in reliably firing percussion/musket caps but that can typically be solved with changing the breech plug length and nipple. That should not be an issue for you however since you will be using the standard ignition kit and using 209 primers in CO and NM.

http://www.knightrifles.com/product-category/muzzleloaders/disc-extreme-muzzleloader/

Ultimate would give you the optimum, accurate, long range muzzleloader for NM.

If you are new to muzzleloader hunting, do yourself a favor and shoot Blackhorn 209 powder and save yourself a lot of headaches. With that said, Ultimates are not designed to shoot Blackhorn 209, unless they have something more recent. Most muzzleloaders today shoot that power very well. It leaves minimal residue which saves a lot of headache with maintaining barrel conditions shot to shot. It cleans up with standard rifle solvents. It maintains uniform shot to shot velocities.

http://www.blackhorn209.com

I also like CVA Accura. They are typically very accurate with sabots. My experience with lead conicals has been somewhat disappointing. My best guess is the rifling is too shallow and not aggressive enough to properly grip a conical. One thing I like about Accuras is they are a break action which is the easiest to clean and maintain. An Accura is not going to have the range of an Ultimate muzzleloader, but is a very good muzzleloader for the money.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

If it was NM only probably the best muzzleloader you could buy would be an Ultimate muzzleloader, not cheap but it would be the optimum set-up for that state.

http://ultimatefirearms.com/modelsprices.php

For Colorado you can't shoot a sabot and will want to be shooting either a Thor bullet or a conical. Sabots like a fast twist barrel and conicals like a slower twist barrel. Most barrels today are are optimized for sabots. That can be overcome by shooting a longer heavier conical which stabilizes better in fast twist barrels. Conicals also seem to like barrels with deeper more aggressive rifling which help the rifling grip the soft lead bullet.

Lots of guys love the Thors for hunting Colorado. I have been shooting No Excuses conicals with remarkable accuracy out of Knight muzzleloaders and killed my Colorado bull with a No Excuses bullet. Not all barrels shoot conicals well, but Knights do. Knight barrels have traditionally been made by Green Mountain. I shoot Knight DISC extremes for all my muzzleloader hunting now since I can set up with a standard kit and shoot 209 primers or a western kit to shoot caps and I have a multi state muzzleloader. I have three DISC Extremes, one is unfired. The other two rival centerfires when it comes to accuracy.

Here is the link for the Thor bullets:

https://thorbullets.com

Here is the link for the No Excuses Bullets (I shoot the 50 caliber 460 grain bullet):

http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com

Knight DISC Extreme's will give you some of the best multi state capabilities. You can set-up with caps and a conical for Oregon, Idaho and Washington, with 209 primers and a conical for Colorado, and with 209 primers and sabots for states that allow it all. Some of the newer DIC Extreme's with the "western" kit have had issues in reliably firing percussion/musket caps but that can typically be solved with changing the breech plug length and nipple. That should not be an issue for you however since you will be using the standard ignition kit and using 209 primers in CO and NM.

http://www.knightrifles.com/product-category/muzzleloaders/disc-extreme-muzzleloader/

Ultimate would give you the optimum, accurate, long range muzzleloader for NM.

If you are new to muzzleloader hunting, do yourself a favor and shoot Blackhorn 209 powder and save yourself a lot of headaches. With that said, Ultimates are not designed to shoot Blackhorn 209, unless they have something more recent. Most muzzleloaders today shoot it very well.

http://www.blackhorn209.com

I also like CVA Accura. They are typically very accurate with sabots. My experience with lead conicals has been somewhat disappointing. My best guess is the rifling is too shallow and not aggressive enough to properly grip a conical. One thing I like about Accuras is they are a break action which is the easiest to clean and maintain. An Accura is not going to have the range of an Ultimate muzzleloader, but is a very good muzzleloader for the money.

Great post...lots of good info.

One thing to remember.....no optical sights in Colorado.

 

[JimP]

You also need to know that in Colorado you are not allowed a scope on a muzzle loader.

For a muzzle loader I have a couple of them. A old Thompson Center Renegade in .54 caliber that loves to shoot 430 grain lead maxi-balls that I hand cast. They are good out to around 150 yards and I can cover the group with my hand with open sights. The few elk that have fallen to this round didn't know what hit them.

My other muzzle loader is a Thompson Center Triumph .50 caliber. The first elk that I shot with it fell to a Thor bullet at 120 yards. I hit him 3 times and only recovered one bullet.

So the best thing that I can say is for you to familiarize yourself with the rules of the muzzle loader hunts in the states that you plan to hunt and then go from there. What might be best in New Mexico may not be legal in Colorado.

 

[SGM]

I have been hunting BP for years in Colorado using a 50 cal Hawkins traditional or my 50 cal CVA in line. I use a 395 grain buffalo bullet with 90 grains of 777 powder and a 209 primer. Never had a issue with a miss fire with this set up and never had to track an elk or deer more than 40 yards. One thing I did not see mentioned was that while hunting with a ML in Colorado you cannot use a scope. So if you do hunt here you need to practice with your open sites and find your comfort zone for what max. range you will fire at. For me and my set up I set a max range of 125 yards. Of course the terrain you are in might drop that down. ML hunting and shooting is different that a modern rifle so take the time to practice as it will pay off when you get that tag and have a critter in your sites.

 

[SGM]

Colorado and Jim must type faster than me as they beat me to the point about no scopes.

 

[BLGarrison]

Thank you so much for all the great feed back. I am starting to lean towards the TC encor. I can have a scoped barrel for NM, a barrel with peep sight for CO, and I can get a smaller caliber barrel for TX whitetail as I live here. Sound like an ok idea?

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

I haven't done a lot of research on the TC rifles but it seems like it should be a solid option. I would look at the Bergara barrels for the TC. CVA uses Bergara barrels on their Accuras and I believe it's the Bergara barrel that gave the CVA rifles much of their solid reputation.

The reason I haven't chased the TC option very far is I am required to hunt with an "open ignition" here in Oregon (able to see the percussion cap).

 

[JimP]

The TC Encor is a very solid platform and the nice thing about it is the ability to change out the barrels to what you are going after. I don't know if I would purchase two of them in .50 caliber for muzzle loader hunting but if you have the cash and that is what you would like to do then by all means go for it.

 

[BLGarrison]

Obviously I would want a .50 cal for elk, but what would you do if your gonna hunt elk and muleys with a scope in nm and then non scope or sabot for elk in CO.

 

[JimP]

I would use the same setup for both elk and deer, and I do. My inline muzzle loader has a Lyman peep sight on it and I can shoot it out to 200 yards but consider 150 yards my maximum just do to the fact that it is a muzzle loader. I shoot 300 grain Thor bullets sized to the barrel over 110 grains of Pyrodex.

For my TC Renegade It has open sights and I shoot a .54 caliber 430 grain maxi-ball over 90 grains of Pyrodex. Either rifle will kill a elk just as dead as the other one if I do my part, and both of them have killed both elk and deer.

 

[Manualman]

If you really want to get sporting, get a flintlock. People look at me like I'm nuts when I deer hunt with one of mine

 

[luckynv]

I have an Encore with a Eabco peep on it that is also a picatinny rail. This allows me to use the same gun for scope or non scope use. I have a Leupold Ultimateslam SABR scope with Quick release rings that I hope to take advantage of Utah this year as they have expanded their scope rules. Gotta watch those Encores though, the barrels can multiply!! 12 gauge, 223, 7mm-08, 300 win mag, not sure why I bought the 375 H&H or the 416 rigby just cause!! Bergara has stopped making barrels for TC so grab em while you can. Good luck and God bless

 

[Elkhunter96]

Has anyone shot the black horn with the Thor conicals in the TC encore. It's a load i was planning on trying this summer for CO

 

[CoHiCntry]

Has anyone shot the black horn with the Thor conicals in the TC encore. It's a load i was planning on trying this summer for CO

I've used that load combination out of a T/C before. Not an Encore though. I used a 250 grain Thor bullet with around 100 gr. of Blackhorn. Very accurate when I was using it! Should do you good.

 

[JimP]

Has anyone shot the black horn with the Thor conicals in the TC encore. It's a load i was planning on trying this summer for CO

I also tried it in my Triamph but found that Pyrodex was just as accurate so I went the cheaper way.