A first for me

[Timberstalker]

I scheduled my annual week of for this upcoming fall. Since the late 80?s I have taken a week off in the fall to go hunting. This year I?m going to Hawaii instead. The hunting has become so bad here in Oregon that for the first time in my life I would rather do something else with my time off. It?s very depressing that with the recourses available in this beautiful state that we have missed the mark in so many things that made this a wonderful state to live. I know every state has its own issues but here in Oregon it?s like I can see the decline spiraling down hill by the day. If things continue down this path at the rate I?m seeing, hunting will be a thing of the past in my lifetime.

I really don?t know why I?m posting this other than the simple reason it saddens me. I don?t know how to change things, I have written letters to our fish and game, went to the public meetings, voted, try to enlighten people who have no clue and nothing seems to get better.

Many hunters today think everything is ok because we still get to hunt. It?s not ok to get to hunt when there isn?t much left to be hunting. It really isn?t.

 

[JimP]

Being from a couple of different states what are the problems in Oregon?

Tag allotments or animal management? Or is it accessing hunting areas? Inquiring minds want to know.

I know that the times that I have been in Oregon it did look like it would be a great state to hunt in.

 

[tttoadman]

There are massive land holdings by timber companies that have become a pay to hunt in the last 10 years.

Poaching is out of control in this state, and there are not enough people to combat it. There are pathetic groups of people in my neck of the woods that act like the laws don't apply to them. You hear about the big poaching rings, but you don't hear about all the people in the rural Willamette valley that shoot deer all year because they think they can. It is like a family tradition with these people, and they are proud of it.

Everyone thinks the hiker and photo crowd enjoys the wildlife in the forest as much as we do, but I don't see how they could. Most of the rec hikers I see in the woods make so much noise yacking that there is no way they are seeing very much game. If they were able to see the decline, it may get more attention.

 

[JimP]

On the timber companies working on the pay to play game are they leasing National Forest Lands or are they leasing private property?

I know that here in Colorado and in Utah along with Wyoming that oil companies are leasing huge amounts of land from the BLM but they also allow access to hunters without the hunters having to pay a fee. If they did start requiring that we pay for access then we might be in the same boat that Oregon is but I believe that it is part of their lease that they grant access. It might not be motorized but we still have access.

 

[tttoadman]

Private ownership. It is just a bummer because when I was a kid, there were thousands of acres open year round for everyone. It was the eighties when everybody was making money. Now everybody with land is trying to find ways to make it more profitable.

 

[kidoggy]

most logging around here is on private property. and many of them run their own mills
talked to an old logger and he told me not many takers on timber sales anymore just not much money in it.

not even sure where the closest lumber yard is anymore . all in this neck of woods went under.

 

[Timberstalker]

Timber companies are all about making as much as possible nowadays anyway they can turn a dime. I grew up hunting private timber ground, it was always open to the public with exception of extreme fire danger.

I could go on and on about reasons for decline but the two that I see being at the top of the list are changing logging practices and lack of predator control. Both of these issue created by environmentalists thinking they are doing a good thing for wildlife all the while having no idea what is really happening out there. Most of these people never leave the trail or get more than a mile away from their Subaru. They see deer in town and think we are overrun with wildlife. They don’t know the deer are in town because there aren’t as many cougars in town hunting them. Not that there are no cougars in towns, we’ve had two taken out in the last couple weeks in towns, one was in a hotel.
T

 

[JimP]

Sounds like someone up in the corporate office saw another place where the lumber company could make money and ran with it. That is the problem with private property, not only in Oregon but everywhere else.

I was asked a few years ago about how the Forest Service was selling National Forest properties in a area in Utah. It seams that a hunter went out hunting to a spot that his father and grandfather and him had hunted all their lives and found the NO TRESPASSING signs all over the place. I just told him that it had been private for as long as I could remember but that the owners had no reason to post it or keep others off of it and they just let others enjoy it. But then it was sold and the new owner had the it's mine philosophy and posted it. It is sad that this is happening but it is happening all over the west.

This is one reason we need to keep the public lands in the Feds hands and not in the states hands. The states would sell it off as fast as they could. The states come close to doing this with the State School Trust Lands. They usually just lease them but the people that lease them could put up those signs to keep everyone else off of them.

Hunting and land access is only going to get worse and not better in the future. I'm just glad that I am on my down hill side of my hunting career.

 

[Timberstalker]

Timber lands being pay to play isn?t what?s discouraging me, pretty much all of my stomping ground now are public lands. They just aren?t managed as well as they used to be. No clear cut logging on National forest, no hounds chasing bears and cougars, no baiting bears, Wolfs, to many tags offered, unlimited archery tags, people driving the ATV?s where they aren?t supposed to, poaching, excessive tribal hunting on public lands, point creep making hunts fewer and farther between with the quality getting worse. Stuff like that is what changing where I have spent my last 25 seasons.

I know I?m complaining about to few hunts and to many tags offered. It?s a double edged sword. The system used to be a pay up front no point saver system that worked pretty good. We had more game to hunt and tag numbers were more relative to the population. Now 25 years later it has changed to a money grabbing system with zero concerns for the overall hunting experience or the game population. It?s all about the money, fish and game doesnt care what type of hunter draws the tags or if they have a good hunt, they just want to sell points and tags to who ever is crazy enough to pay for them. I?m starting to wise up and spend my money elsewhere.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

I actually don't mind the fee system on Weyerhaeuser. We have taken 4 cow elk off of there the past two years. One of the best benefits is that they allow access nearly everyday unless there is extreme fire danger. Before the fee system, it was far more difficult to have predictable access. The fee in our area lets us in to a massive chunk of land with lots of elk for $350 for 12 months. Bulls are tough to kill, but that kind of comes with the territory with Roosevelts.

One of the big impacts to hunting that we have had here in Southern Oregon has been the lack of logging on National Forest do to the "spotted owl". The highway I live off of used to be one of the major thoroughfares for logs coming out of the Cascades. Logging creates feed and great blacktail habitat. Logged clearcuts are just about gone, but we have had a lot more burns the past few years, so I'm cautiously optimistic that that might help a tiny bit.

Speaking of Hawaii, my wife and I are thinking the same thing about going to Hawaii instead of a hunt this fall. Sounds like a great plan after the crazy busy year we've had.

 

[Alabama]

Is it bad statewide? Maybe look into some new areas or if that doesn't work, even other states.

Keep your head up! I couldn't imagine a fall without hunting.

 

[Timberstalker]

Is it bad statewide? Maybe look into some new areas or if that doesn't work, even other states.

Keep your head up! I couldn't imagine a fall without hunting.

We do have issues statewide. Oregon is a diverse state from coastal rain forest to desolate remote desert, mountain ranges and giant canyon country, nearly any type of terrain a man would could choose to hunt. Every part of the state is in some sort of decline. I’ve hunted nearly every corner at one time or another and talk to many hunters who see that same things I do. The coastal range seems to be an access issue due to the private timber lands. In the middle of the state it is a tribal hunting, poaching, over pressure, predators problem. SE mainly a predator and perhaps poaching but there are very few people there so I think it’s cats more than humans. NE it’s predators mainly. Logging practices play a part in much of the state not really a factor in the SE deserts.

To give an example I typically keep a pretty good eye on the local deer herd. I live near one of most sought after unit in the state that is what Eastmans will list as a blue chip unit for late archery, requires 18 points to draw. I used to see 100+ deer on an average outing in the winter range and multiple large bucks. I’ve only seen a handful of deer this winter and very few bucks. Many of the deer that live in this area summer on National forest. With the lack of feed from overgrown planted trees on National forest that were meant to be harvested, along with predators, tribal hunts among other things the deer don’t have a chance.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Is it bad statewide? Maybe look into some new areas or if that doesn't work, even other states.

Keep your head up! I couldn't imagine a fall without hunting.

Oregon has excellent sheep, mountain goat and antelope hunting but tags are scarce. Black bear hunting is decent, but no baiting or hounds are allowed. There are three trophy Rocky Mountain elk units in the NW corner that are very good but very low odds without a pile of points. There are really NO standout mule deer hunts other than premium tags or raffle tags with extended season dates. As an example, in 2009, I was one of six people in the state with max points (16 points) and burned them on a blacktail tag, since i realized that I could have a better mule deer hunt in Colorado with a few points. There are no exceptional Roosevelt draw tags other than the premium tags (one per unit) that would allow rifle hunting in the rut. Blacktail hunting has gotten far more difficult since the near elimination of logging on National Forest land. I think it about covers it.

 

[Timberstalker]

All hunting here can be tough, even the ones UH mentioned. I have hunted sheep and antelope here in Oregon. Both hunts were tough. My sheep hunt was a 14 day struggle, by no means a slam dunk. (Chesnimnus unit 2011) It was by far the toughest hunt I?ve ever had. My antelope hunt took me 16 years to draw. I hunted hard in a blue chip unit (N Wagontire 2015) and saw 9 bucks in seven days. I shot an average buck on day seven and to be honest I was glad it was over, I haven?t applied for an antelope hunt since. So not to go against the grain to much but not all sheep and antelope hunts are excellent from my experience.
I don?t expect slam dunk hunts, nor do I want them. It would be nice to go on a hunt and see game without having to turn it into a job though.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

One thing for sure, Oregon manages its deer and elk hunting for opportunity. OTC archery tags for deer and elk that are essentially statewide with a month-long season during the elk rut. OTC rifle deer tags for half of the state for a month-long hunt that bumps into the rut at the end. Most mule deer units get hundreds of rifle tags, but not really close to the rut. OTC rifle elk tags for most of the west side and part of the east side. That gets a lot of people in the woods, but most of them never see a mature buck or bull. Lots of forked-horn deer and spike elk get shot. It's a management choice, but not one that everybody appreciates.

As for the rest of the problems facing our herds, I'm pretty squarely in the habitat camp. If you have adequate quality habitat, the animals can handle a lot. Encroach on winter range, let the forests all grow to a closed canopy, build more roads, and spray the clearcuts, and you will have fewer animals.

QQ

 

[tttoadman]

I always felt like the blacktail deer suffered from being pushed into mountains as the valley habitat was consumed by farms and housing. I think they are better suited for living in scattered oak savana than dense forest. The issue with the clearcuts is a tough one. I think they were a replacement for the habitat that was lost in the valley, and provided the only real open areas for feeding once animals were pushed out of the valley. I wonder if the open areas of clear cuts also gave deer and elk a better defense from cats.

The biggest impact I saw was when they passed the dog hunting laws. OR has a voter policy where enough signatures gets a voter bill on the ticket. When it came down to the urban areas feeling sorry for those poor kitties being hunted by those mean dogs, the bill passed with flying colors. This was against all recommendations of the OR F&G also.

I have also felt that the blacktail seasons around here are way too generous. The hillbillies I described above just shoot the shit out every buck they find for a month and fill all their friends and families tags while they pat themselves on the back like it is an accomplishment. I would like to see 1 week in October and 1 week in November.

 

[conibear]

Timberstalker don't get discouraged and quit something you have enjoyed for so long. Re-think what a hunt brings and try some new areas. Our state is enormous, and there are parts of it that will give you a great experience that rivals anyplace else. The fee Umpqua hunter pays guarantees him and his hunting buddies a guaranteed successful hunt. You got guys on this forum from eastern states that would line up to hunt Weyerhauser land for that fee. My two cents. And as a last resort, take your bow to Hawaii and shoot those little goats.

 

[conibear]

I always felt like the blacktail deer suffered from being pushed into mountains as the valley habitat was consumed by farms and housing. I think they are better suited for living in scattered oak savana than dense forest. The issue with the clearcuts is a tough one. I think they were a replacement for the habitat that was lost in the valley, and provided the only real open areas for feeding once animals were pushed out of the valley. I wonder if the open areas of clear cuts also gave deer and elk a better defense from cats.

The biggest impact I saw was when they passed the dog hunting laws. OR has a voter policy where enough signatures gets a voter bill on the ticket. When it came down to the urban areas feeling sorry for those poor kitties being hunted by those mean dogs, the bill passed with flying colors. This was against all recommendations of the OR F&G also.

I have also felt that the blacktail seasons around here are way too generous. The hillbillies I described above just shoot the shit out every buck they find for a month and fill all their friends and families tags while they pat themselves on the back like it is an accomplishment. I would like to see 1 week in October and 1 week in November.

You nailed it tttoadman. The BT season is ridiculous. Good post.......and that buck in your avatar picture looks like he was taken on Hebo Mtn. LOL

 

[Timberstalker]

Conibear, I’ve been trying new areas for the last several years. I just not finding anything worth the time. I’m sure it will buy a deer or elk tag, maybe both, but my expectations of actually filling one of them are very low. I would be a weekend warrior hoping to get lucky. I guess I’m to the point where the hunting is not my first choice of what I want to do with my time off work. I’m not even sure what draw hunts to apply for since none of them are much better than OTC hunting from my experience. I used to elk hunt Silvies unit and looked forward to it more than anything. The elk there are pretty much all on private now. The OTC bow hunting there is stupid, It needs to be restricted. Santiam unit Blacktail deer hunting’s is the lowest success rate in the state. That was the unit I grew up hunting and killed a buck every year for two decades. I can barely find a deer now, so I’ve been driving three hours to the rogue unit and have yet to find a for sure spot that is worth the three hour drive. Metolius deer was the unit I’ve been waiting for recently, I have been watching that unit for 30 years and have seen some great bucks. The deer there today are scarce, the tribal hunts, cougars, poachers and hunting pressure from August through November have taken it’s toll on them. Chesnimnus is the unit I’ve been elk hunting in when I can for the last decade. It’s getting harder and harder to draw the tag and the elk are getting more pressure there too. Wolves and added tags have that unit going to wrong way.

 

[Travisitguy]

I agree BT should be a week or two tops. I also feel that many of these units that offer 1000 bull/spike tags is nuts then have OTC spike only hunts later in the year in those same areas. its all about Revenue