308 WIN Berger 210 gr VLD

[wackandstackRMH]

So I'm looking for a elk hunting bullet that bucks the wind really good and has high KE out pass 600-700 yards. I ran across the Berger VLD Match grade Hunting bullet. It's 210 gr 308 cal. The bullet has a .631 G1 BC. I also found a company HSM, who I've found to produce great cartridges, who loads the 210 gr Berger VLD Match Grade Hunting Bullet for .308 WIN. It has a muzzle velocity of 2508 and almost 3000 ft lbs of KE. Berger recommends a minimum of 1-11 twist for this bullet. I am shooting a Remington 700P 308 with a 26" 1-12 twist barrel.

My question to all is (A) has anyone shot this bullet out of a 1-12 twist barrel and how did it preform? (B) would the bullet still have enough barrel and twist rate to stabilize? (C) does anyone know of a comparable bullet for 308 elk hunting at long range?

 

[lostriverproductions]

You won't find a better longrange bullet in a factory loading then berger bullets. Nosler acubond longrange bullets are a close second. Here is the problem with those two bullets, they have a problem with horrible penetration if say you hit one in the lower shoulder. That will probably be wounding shot. SO I would stick with behind the shoulder double lung shots. Avoid large bone with those two. Another bullet to consider that has some decent BC value is the Nosler acubond (non longrange) It has a thicker jacket. If you reload look into matrix bullets or cutting edge, But I don't think you will be able to shoot the 210's in the 1-12 twist. I would shoot the 168 bergers. HSM produces quality factory ammunition IMO.

 

[JPSeveland]

As far as shooting a 308winchester i have found were i am most accurate is shooting a 165-168 grain bullet as far as great penatrating bullets i would not use burger even thos they are a great shooting bullet they are very light constructed. Im not saying they wont do the job but you will need that perfect brodside shot with this tipe of bullet. For a good shooting bullet that hold together better i would recomend a 165 grain nosler accubond or the nosler partition these bullets fly great and sure put animals down. I had a buddy of mine shoot a big white tail at 40 yard in eastern colorado with a 225 grain nosler accubond out of a 35 whelen ackley improved going 2700 fps and hit the deer in the pelvice and that bullet traveled threw the full length of the deer and stopped on the opisit shoulder just behind the skin. The 165 grain bullets from nosler dont have as good of a b.c. as the big 210 grainers but if you shoot it alot truely get to know that round and know exactly were you will hit at all your ranges i would not be afraid to shoot an elk at some greater distances. You could also look into Barnes ttsx i shoot this bullet threw my 338 win mag and it does fantastic on mule deer and elk. Hope this helps if you have any other questions you can P.M. me

 

[Elkoholic307]

If you want to buck the wind, the 210 Berger is a great choice but I would probably use their 190 grain due to the twist rate.

Also, don't worry about shoulder shots. Bergers deliver plenty of penetration; even on big bodied, heavy boned elk.

If you're set up to reload, check out JLK bullets too. Their 190 might be what you're looking for.

 

[wackandstackRMH]

Thanks for your input guys. In a perfect world I would like to use a 300 Win Mag for elk but all I got is a 308. I do long range shooting matches with it and push it out to a grand. I know it loses a lot of muzzle velocity and KE passed 5-600. So using it on elk I will keep the ranges to 500 and 600 tops. I just want the best bullet for those types of ranges and one that will also work at closer distances. I know a lot of the "long range" bullets don't perform well at closer ranges but the Berger VLD does well. I have some 185 VLD's that I will proly end up using. I heard that the Barnes TTSX bullets won't open under 1800 fps. I have heard good things about the Nosler Accubonds also. I will more then likely buy a box of both and see which ones shoot better out of my rifle.

 

[Tim McCoy]

The Nosler AB LR and Barnes LRX both have lower minimum velocity requirements than the AB and TSX/TTSX respectively. That may give you a few more bullet choices and a larger range performance window, as long as you are carrying enough energy. I'm going to try both the AB LR and LRX in my 280. I don't have enough personal field experience with the bergers to comment on their suitability for elk, but they seem a bit soft based on what I understand about them. Feel the same about Nosler BT's and Hornady SST's for elk, unless moderate velocity high SD bullets for caliber are used.

 

[packmule]

I watched a muley absorb 2 out of a 300 Tejas and keep on truckin'. Even with the second shot being out at 900yds it still blew a crater. Same guy was hoping that would be a redemption hunt for them after they caused a cluster on a moose hunt. I'll give up some BC for weight retention.

 

[Tim McCoy]

I watched a muley absorb 2 out of a 300 Tejas and keep on truckin'. Even with the second shot being out at 900yds it still blew a crater. Same guy was hoping that would be a redemption hunt for them after they caused a cluster on a moose hunt. I'll give up some BC for weight retention.

Were those Bergers or ? I am with you on a bullet tough enough to make a hole all the way through, gives you a margin of error if you are a few inches off and hit a large shoulder bone.

 

[packmule]

Yes, VLDs.

 

[packmule]

Didn't think to document it, but can make out one of the hits.

 

[Tim McCoy]

Yes, VLDs.

Thank you. I feel better now. For my 280, I am going to try the 150 AB LR, 150 Sirocco, 154 IB and 145 LRX. I am hoping the AB LR or LRX is the preferred pill as I want confidence in weight retention, and very good low to moderate (1,900-2,000) velocity expansion.

 

[packmule]

I try my hardest to stick with the regular Accubonds if the rifle will let me.

 

[Tim McCoy]

Have you heard bad things about AB LR version? I can get regular AB's in 140 and 160's if you are telling me the LR version is too soft based on field experience.

 

[packmule]

I haven't heard much of anything out of them, they've been too hard to come by around here. I'm supposed to mess with a rifle in a month or so that's coming from UT that's getting set up to shoot them, so hopefully about a 250lb hog will cooperate for a test trial.

 

[Tim McCoy]

I haven't heard much of anything out of them, they've been too hard to come by around here. I'm supposed to mess with a rifle in a month or so that's coming from UT that's getting set up to shoot them, so hopefully about a 250lb hog will cooperate for a test trial.

I would love to hear about the results of your test trial. I am going on the AB rep and am figuring them to work well with possibly a little less weight retention than a standard AB, but I could be all wet.

 

[lostriverproductions]

Have you heard bad things about AB LR version? I can get regular AB's in 140 and 160's if you are telling me the LR version is too soft based on field experience.

The AB LR's have a very thin jacket, which won't hold together for overall weight retention. They don't hold together the same as the regular AB. If you don't plan to shoot past 500 yards bullet BC really doesn't matter honestly.

 

[Tim McCoy]

The AB LR's have a very thin jacket, which won't hold together for overall weight retention. They don't hold together the same as the regular AB. If you don't plan to shoot past 500 yards bullet BC really doesn't matter honestly.

I am going to try and be effective to 600 for a sheep hunt, and hope to shoot much closer. Where I will be hunting is 9-11k in altitude. So it was more the 150gr weight than the BC that drew me. The thin jacket makes sense as they advertise a very low velocity requirement, but it is still bonded so a complete frag should be very rare? I'd really like to find actual field use results. I am thinking it would be a much tougher bullet than a vld style, so for deer/sheep just fine?

 

[libidilatimmy]

I am going to try and be effective to 600 for a sheep hunt, and hope to shoot much closer. Where I will be hunting is 9-11k in altitude. So it was more the 150gr weight than the BC that drew me. The thin jacket makes sense as they advertise a very low velocity requirement, but it is still bonded so a complete frag should be very rare? I'd really like to find actual field use results. I am thinking it would be a much tougher bullet than a vld style, so for deer/sheep just fine?

From what I've studied on the ABLR, they're basically designed to retain 40-50% of their initial weight and perform better at slower impact velocities. The few SGK's I've recovered in animals have retained a higher percentage than that, so I'd say the "accubond" portion of the name is little more than good advertising. Additionally, if the selling point of the ABLR is the super high BC, one should temper expectations there as well because those seem to be overstated based on individual testing that I have knowledge of. Nothing really wrong with the ABLR as long as you know what kind of performance you'll get with them and don't expect them to perform the same as the original AB terminal performance wise.

 

[stevevan]

I really do not have any field experience with the Nosler ABLR bullets. My favorite bullet for my 7mm Remy is the regular 160 Accubond which has performed exceptionally well but I got take in by the High BC of the 168 LR. Turns out I won't have any good field results with the ABLR since I could not get it to shoot worth a hoot. Back to reg. 160 Accubonds where I should have stayed in the first place. Had the same result with my .280 Remmy with the 150 ABLR. Printed more of a pattern than a group! Back to regular 140 Accubonds that shoot lights out. Really, unless you're looking to shoot extreme long range, maybe way past 600 yds. I just can't see a big advantage to the LR versions.

 

[wackandstackRMH]

The VLD'S are designed to go in about 3-5 inches inside the animal (past all the bone) then fragment like a bomb going off. This creates a massive primary wound channel and the fragment are dispersed away from the primary wound channel creating additional wound channels. The Berger is designed to lose (fragment) 40-90% (depending on velocity) of its mass inside of the animal. This transfers more of the bullets energy inside the animal and it's not wasted by penetration all the way through the animal. Personally I would rather have that bullet expand and fragment throughout the chest cavity of the animal in all directions then to retain the majority of its weight and get full penetration. It's like shooting something with a FMJ or a M855. Great penetration and weight retention but you won't get that massive wound channel and dump all that KE inside the animals vital organs.