Hey guys,
The 2018 Draw Recap Reports for Deer, Elk, etc are now posted on the CO Parks & Wildlife website.
The 2018 Draw Recap Reports for Deer, Elk, etc are now posted on the CO Parks & Wildlife website.
2018 Statistics
- Thread starter Winchester
- Start date
Yep, It's like that for Sheep and Goat too.
So all this year's new applicants just got 1 Preference Point.
In a couple of years when they get 3 and can start actually competing for tags the draw odds are going to drop pretty substantially.
So all this year's new applicants just got 1 Preference Point.
In a couple of years when they get 3 and can start actually competing for tags the draw odds are going to drop pretty substantially.
I sent a pretty telling letter this morning to the CPW Board of Commission. I put together some $$$ numbers on drawing a Big 3 tag versus a premium antelope tag over a 10 year period. Wouldn't you believe a premium antelope tag could actually cost you more than the Big 3 tag. I don't understand it over the same time period.
It seems like Colorado screwed this up pretty good.
I wonder if they'll make any changes after they analyze these draw statistics.
I wonder if they'll make any changes after they analyze these draw statistics.
JimP
Administrator
They didn't screw up, look at all those people that applied this year for $3 and then look at how much they made off of the PP and bonus point money. They sold just as many tags as they had to sell. It looks to me that they have found a cash cow. Just on application fees alone the difference between last year and this year on moose alone is $100,000.
It is the hunters that are going to get screwed over and the amount of time it will take to draw a tag for the better units is going to get scary.
It is the hunters that are going to get screwed over and the amount of time it will take to draw a tag for the better units is going to get scary.
JimP
Administrator
Utah did this a number of years ago. They were a pre pay on your applications and then refunded it when you didn't draw. Now that all you pay is the application fee they are making money and not having to refund any of it.
Yeah that's what I meant Jim, I was speaking from my perspective as a hunter.
You certainly explained it better then me. Thanks!
You certainly explained it better then me. Thanks!
The real travesty to this new ordeal is not charging any money for the Big 3 preference point that everyone received this year when something being purchased is NOT required to receive a point; however, for any other big-game species either via a tag last year, a fishing or hunting license, etc. is required.
I ran the numbers last night, if CPW would have charged $30 (res.) or $40 (NR) for the preference points for those not successful for just sheep and mtn goat, it would have brought in an additional $2,468,310 + $223,212 ($3 application fee which they received anyway for the application).
I conducted four different scenarios using various methods of receiving an antelope point over a 10 year period and drawing a Premium antelope tag on year 11 with those 10 points. In contrast, the cost of drawing a Big 3 tag over the same time period.
To put it simply here are the data for total cost over the time period:
Purchase a yearly antelope tag: $374
Purchase a yearly antelope Res. Preference point: $364
Purchase a yearly fishing license: $324
Purchase a yearly small-game license: $274
Now the shocking truth!!!
Purchase a yearly Big 3 application fee for 10 years @ $3/yr plus the $254 tag cost = $284
Who would have thought it would have cost more to draw a Premium antelope tag over a 10 year period versus a Big 3 tag over that same 10 year period!!!
CPW has got to put a Premium to the Big 3 Preference Points that are simply being "awarded" every year for FREE!!!
Not to mention, the roughly $2.5MM for the costs of those PP are only for Sheep and Goat, which had 74,404 total applications. Now consider the potential additional revenue to be gained when moose is added to the equation at another 59,157 applications, roughly another $2MM.
CPW is not only doing the people who have been in this points game for a considerable time a disservice, but also the Big 3 animals who are considered to be a Premium species, but in actuality a Big 3 tag costs less over a given period of time in comparison to other Premium big-game tags. I'm all for "free" stuff, but the "free" Big 3 preference points has got to come to an end and needs to require a premium cost to help support conservation of the species and to also protect those who have been in the points game for a considerable time.
Graybird
Alright, I couldn't help it. IF CPW charged $30 or $40 for a Res or NR preference point, respectively, for those not drawing at tag this year.
Res. apps: 45,758 applicants - 404 successful = 45,354 unsuccessful x $30 = $1,360,620
NR apps: 13,399 applicants - 45 successful = 13,354 unsuccessful x $40 = $534,160
Grand Total = $1,894,780 worth of Moose Preference Points simply "Awarded" for FREE
Meanwhile, elk, deer, antelope, bear points are costing something .....
I don't understand it!!!
Res. apps: 45,758 applicants - 404 successful = 45,354 unsuccessful x $30 = $1,360,620
NR apps: 13,399 applicants - 45 successful = 13,354 unsuccessful x $40 = $534,160
Grand Total = $1,894,780 worth of Moose Preference Points simply "Awarded" for FREE
Meanwhile, elk, deer, antelope, bear points are costing something .....
I don't understand it!!!
JimP
Administrator
But you need to figure in how many of those putting in have the required previous years license where they don't have to pay the PP fee. I know of quite a few people that will purchase a annual fishing license and then come here to Colorado to fish and get to know the country that they are applying for permits in. That along with perhaps archery hunting which also qualifies as a way to avoid the PP fees. But now that applicants can put in for all the tags that they want all they need to do is to purchase a $56 annual fishing license each year and start applying with no PP fees.
So in the long run you really can't figure in the PP fees on what it is going to cost someone unless the applicants are only putting in for single tags or don't have the qualifying license to avoid the fees.
So in the long run you really can't figure in the PP fees on what it is going to cost someone unless the applicants are only putting in for single tags or don't have the qualifying license to avoid the fees.
There are ZERO requirements to purchase anything for Moose, Mtn Goat or BH Sheep, other than the habitat stamp ....
As an example, my buddy from Oklahoma put in for 4 species this year for the 1st time.
Antelope, Bear, Elk and Moose
Here's what it cost him...
Habitat Stamp ... $10 (flat fee regardless, so I don't really consider it, along with the S&R fees.)
Antelope .... $3 app fee + $40 PP fee
Bear ... $3 app fee + $40 PP fee
Elk ... $3 app fee + $40 PP fee
Moose ... $3 app fee + $0 PP fee
He was "awarded" all his points for the above species, but he had to purchase the points for antelope, bear and elk. It did NOT cost him a single red penny for his Moose point because a previous hunt or fishing license or previous year's license is not required for the Big 3.
That's the reason why I'm saying the Big 3 PP need to be worth something. Personally, I believe they should be worth more than a PP for a normal big-game species, but they should be at least equivalent and be required yearly to receive your weighted point versus a FREE ticket.
As an example, my buddy from Oklahoma put in for 4 species this year for the 1st time.
Antelope, Bear, Elk and Moose
Here's what it cost him...
Habitat Stamp ... $10 (flat fee regardless, so I don't really consider it, along with the S&R fees.)
Antelope .... $3 app fee + $40 PP fee
Bear ... $3 app fee + $40 PP fee
Elk ... $3 app fee + $40 PP fee
Moose ... $3 app fee + $0 PP fee
He was "awarded" all his points for the above species, but he had to purchase the points for antelope, bear and elk. It did NOT cost him a single red penny for his Moose point because a previous hunt or fishing license or previous year's license is not required for the Big 3.
That's the reason why I'm saying the Big 3 PP need to be worth something. Personally, I believe they should be worth more than a PP for a normal big-game species, but they should be at least equivalent and be required yearly to receive your weighted point versus a FREE ticket.
JimP
Administrator
And if he would of had a 2017 annual fishing license which can be purchased for $56 he would of saved $64.
And if he purchases a non resident annual fishing license this year and applies for the same animals next year he will save $64 again.
And if he purchases a non resident annual fishing license this year and applies for the same animals next year he will save $64 again.
swampokie
Veteran member
Dude, you are clueless to the discussion. I get all of what you say, which is 100% true. You're not understanding the problem with free points for the Big 3.
The issue is preference points for the Big 3 cost nothing more than $3 each. That's a grand total of $9 for 3 points for moose, mountain goat and sheep.
Fink
Veteran member
This is interesting.. I had no clue that the big 3 were excluded from preference point fees, regardless of your prior years license status...The issue is preference points for the Big 3 cost nothing more than $3 each. That's a grand total of $9 for 3 points for moose, mountain goat and sheep.
Page 2 of the rules/regs - If you do not hold a 2017 license, you'll be charge $40 per species (for deer, elk, pronghorn and bear).
Thomas11
Member
Yea I didn’t realize that the big three were excluded from PP fees? I thought every species was $40 each. So in the past before this yr, did u not get charged for pp fee for big 3? It’s always been 40 bucks fir other species.
