It would help those of us who put out information on odds and units if G&F pulled the landowner tags out from the beginning.
2014 Wyoming Draw Results Coming Soon!
- Thread starter Musket Man
- Start date
Elkoholic307
Banned
False. They actually do look closely at animal use days. Where I'm from anyway...
Topgun 30-06
Banned
***Yep Scott, as I forgot that Eastmans basicly puts out the same kind of information in the MRS sections us subscribers get in the magazines as Huntin Fool based on what the G&F provides and they don't readily provide that landowner information. The big difference is that the latter also have that tag service and make a lot of money off of it and the big money they charge for a yearly subscription to their service.
Topgun 30-06
Banned
That could be in certain areas, but I know from what I just mentioned in my edit section that supposedly many locals knew what was going on with the Carter Ranch properties and many doubted that the G&F did things properly and didn't at least have a clue as to what was happening there. I know the area Game Warden, and although Tom is a very nice guy, he's told me more than once that he doesn't like the law enforcement duties of his job and much prefers to do his game biologist duties the bulk of his time in the field. That, he stated, requires he keep a good relationship with all the landowners so they will let him on their properties to do his studies because they can refuse at any time for any reason.
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With all of the tag cuts we are really seeing the LO tags come out of the quota now and 87 is a good example of that. In 2009 87 had 200 tags. 16 tags taken off the top of 200 doesnt change things all that much but 16 taken off the top of 25 makes a huge difference.
Topgun 30-06
Banned
Yep!!! The problem is that these landowners are paying taxes on that property and are voters, so it probably will not change much, if any, in the near future. The best I think we could expect to get would be to have G&F only put the draws total up on the site with the landowner tags excluded so at least everyone knows the true odds to get a tag in each unit. I would be a very unhappy camper right now if I had wasted a year with a bunch of PPs thinking I had 87-1 in the bag and already had plans made to hunt it, only to see that not a single tag was issued to a NR when the results were posted!
I agree they could atleast take the LO tags out of the quota so a guy could see if he actually had a chance at a tag or not. I hope things get better in that area soon.
WapitiBob
Veteran member
they do...
1. Total Quota is obtained for each hunt area
2. Quota is split between Resident and Nonresident Share (84% NR; 16% RES)
3. Nonresident Total Quota available for each hunt area is split for Landowner Draw
75% (Round UP) Preference Point Draw—Landowner Draw
25% (Round DOWN) Random Point Draw—Landowner Draw
4. Landowner Preference Point Drawing is conducted
Quota balance is held
5. Landowner Random Drawing is conducted
6. Quota balance from Landowner Preference Point Draw and Landowner Random Drawing are
combined to a new total quota available for each hunt area.
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WapitiBob
Veteran member
The LO draw is part of the whole draw process so they can't post totals after one segment. Not knowing the LO tags drawn in previous years shouldn't be a problem.
Topgun 30-06
Banned
So Bob, where did you get that stat sheet? Was that asked for and received from your "girlfriend" up at G&F or is that readily available on the G&F website somewhere because that's the first I've seen anything like it! Also, from what you're telling us it looks like you're saying that LO tags are limited in number and I have never heard of that before and I believe everyone thinks as I did that they are limitless as long as the 160 acres and 2000 animal days per species is met for that acerage. Could you please, with your vast knowledge of everything on the G&F draws, explain in more detail about these landowner license questions we're talking about and how they affect the draws. I guess the main question would be is if there is any way before the draw to actually know how many tags are left for the draws after landowners get theirs out of the Final regulation totals posted on the G&F website. I, for one, had no knowldege of landowners even being in the draw process since there is nothing to show that they are! You might start by explaining how deer 87-1 that had 25 total tags allotted to it in the 2014 Final Regulation only shows 9 resident tags given out in the draw and none to any of the NR draws. Thanks man!
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WapitiBob
Veteran member
I have a new girlfriend up there...
Most of the info I get is available but not published. Some requires a simple email or phone call, others require a public info request, and as we discussed the other day, some info I payed the dept to create per WY Statute.
The effect of the LO tags can be shown in the previous post. They come right off the top after the res/nr 84/16 allotments. After the LO tags are drawn, they recalculate the remainder and split 40/60 so depending on how many tags the LO's get, it can impact the regular/special quantities. We can't get the LO numbers prior to our draw because it's all one process; best we can do is look at previous years info and guestimate.
There's no limit to the number of LO tags they can draw for a given hunt code. Buzz has mentioned this several times. If enough different LO's apply for the same hunt, they could draw every tag.
Most of the info I get is available but not published. Some requires a simple email or phone call, others require a public info request, and as we discussed the other day, some info I payed the dept to create per WY Statute.
The effect of the LO tags can be shown in the previous post. They come right off the top after the res/nr 84/16 allotments. After the LO tags are drawn, they recalculate the remainder and split 40/60 so depending on how many tags the LO's get, it can impact the regular/special quantities. We can't get the LO numbers prior to our draw because it's all one process; best we can do is look at previous years info and guestimate.
There's no limit to the number of LO tags they can draw for a given hunt code. Buzz has mentioned this several times. If enough different LO's apply for the same hunt, they could draw every tag.
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Do NR LO tags come from the NR pool and R LO tags come from the R pool? Im not understanding where PP's come in here? It seems like the LO tags would only be a draw if there were more LO apps then there were tags.
Topgun 30-06
Banned
Yep, I know you have a new girl up there. I think you drove the other one to find another position with all the info. requestsyou wre asking her for, LOL! Just kidding! Anyway, it's as I thought and mentioned that the LOs can take all the tags depending on the unit and number of tags to be issued. It's really even more of a guessing game on this LO deal than looking at the actual black and white stat sheet because we have no idea how many people that have saved PPs will enter the draw in a given year or where they will try to use them when they do apply. Thanks and please check your email and see if you can answer the question I asked regarding the antelope 82-1 draw in 2013 that looks screwy!
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Topgun 30-06
Banned
Yes, the tags are taken from each of those pools as you have stated before the draws that are posted on the website are done. As I understand it, Bob is saying that the percentages used are just to separate the tags into the various pools that the Wyoming statute requires. As he stated, there are actually no maximum numbers when the LO tags are actually taken out of those pools as there is when the actual pool numbers are figured out using the percentages required in the statute for each draw itself (60/40, etc.). The draws may not have anything left in one of those pools if there are more landowner requests than tags. I would assume if that happens they would have a random draw amongst the resident landowners or by PPs in the NRs pools, but that is just a guess and I may be way off base.
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MOHunter
Member
This may have already been explained, but I don't have time while watching 2 small children to read 82 pages of a thread! Looking at the LO allotments today got me real confused on how they're figured. My particular tag had a quota of 40 NR tags. There were 33 1st choice applications, and 2 2nd choice applications. For Res, the quota was 217. There were 199 1st choice apps and 25 2nd choice apps.
The leftover pool showed 17. How? I called the G&F, and the lady said she had no idea why. She said that NR should have sold 35 of their 40, and Res should have sold all of theirs. There should either be 5 LO, or none, depending on whether they sell the LO NR to Res who did not draw. Help please.
The leftover pool showed 17. How? I called the G&F, and the lady said she had no idea why. She said that NR should have sold 35 of their 40, and Res should have sold all of theirs. There should either be 5 LO, or none, depending on whether they sell the LO NR to Res who did not draw. Help please.
WapitiBob
Veteran member
Short answer, you can't accurately judge the lo tag distribution by looking at the draw odds reports.
As mentioned above, the lo tags are gone before those reports are even created.
As mentioned above, the lo tags are gone before those reports are even created.
Topgun 30-06
Banned
MOHunter
Member
Topgun 30-06
Banned
Normally when we refer to LO we are talking about land owner tags and that's what the last few posts in this thread have been talking about. I reread your first post and I now understand what you're asking about. The reason there are more leftovers than you think there should be in that unit is that just because it shows a number of second choice applicants on a line doesn't mean they drew that tag. They may have drawn their first choice, so whatever number is in that column can't really be subtracted from the totals you mentioned to know what will be left because you don't know how many tags did or didn't go to those second choice applicants.