OPINIONS ON BONUS POINTS vs PREFERENCE POINTS

[NDHunter]

Whether or not you have a preference point system like Colorado or a straight up random draw like New Mexico, the odds of drawing the uber-premium tag is always going to be low. Everyone talks about the elk tags in northwest Colorado as never being available for them to draw in their lifetime whereas in New Mexico you could draw them multiple times. Yes, it's possible. And so is winning the Powerball.

Looking at the draw odds for 16D rifle elk in New Mexico and the 2C rifle deer tag in New Mexico, whether or not they have a point system or not, your draw odds are incredibly low and it is highly unlikekly that you would ever draw those tags. For 16D elk rifle, there were 684 non-resident first choice apps and 3 got drawn for draw odds of 1 in 228. So statistically you would have to apply for 228 years to draw that tag. For the 2C mule deer rifle tag, 763 non-residents apps were submitted on their first choice and ONE drew a tag. So even if NM decided to go to a preference point system next year, there would probably be a couple thousand people that bought points and the vast majority of people with max points for the next 50 years would still never draw that 2C tag.

I think the hype over the top units is vastly overdone anyways. I don't know if it would be all that enjoyable of a hunt knowing that you waited 20 years for a tag. To me, the pressure of waiting for a tag for 20 years and then feeling like I had to shoot a monster just doesn't seem enjoyable to me. To any of the guys on here who've had one of those tags, I'd be curious to know what you felt like going into and out of the hunt.

 

[Fink]

Whether or not you have a preference point system like Colorado or a straight up random draw like New Mexico, the odds of drawing the uber-premium tag is always going to be low. Everyone talks about the elk tags in northwest Colorado as never being available for them to draw in their lifetime whereas in New Mexico you could draw them multiple times. Yes, it's possible. And so is winning the Powerball.

Looking at the draw odds for 16D rifle elk in New Mexico and the 2C rifle deer tag in New Mexico, whether or not they have a point system or not, your draw odds are incredibly low and it is highly unlikekly that you would ever draw those tags. For 16D elk rifle, there were 684 non-resident first choice apps and 3 got drawn for draw odds of 1 in 228. So statistically you would have to apply for 228 years to draw that tag. For the 2C mule deer rifle tag, 763 non-residents apps were submitted on their first choice and ONE drew a tag. So even if NM decided to go to a preference point system next year, there would probably be a couple thousand people that bought points and the vast majority of people with max points for the next 50 years would still never draw that 2C tag.

I think the hype over the top units is vastly overdone anyways. I don't know if it would be all that enjoyable of a hunt knowing that you waited 20 years for a tag. To me, the pressure of waiting for a tag for 20 years and then feeling like I had to shoot a monster just doesn't seem enjoyable to me. To any of the guys on here who've had one of those tags, I'd be curious to know what you felt like going into and out of the hunt.

I can't disagree with what you are saying, but to me, I think it is fundamentally wrong to completely shut someone out of an opportunity to draw a certain unit, just because they weren't lucky enough to be alive when that point system was implicated.
There will never be enough great tags to go around, but I think every one should get a fair shot at them.

Regarding actually waiting 20 years to draw a tag? I won't do it.. I like to hunt far too much to ever wait 20 years for a tag.

 

[CrimsonArrow]

I'm not really well-versed on draw systems, but I think preference-based draws stink. I think the fairest draw is where you get one ticket in the hat for every year you've applied. That way, everybody has some chance, and those who have been in the game the longest have the best chance. I am strongly against any system that excludes people, particularly the youth and beginning hunters.

 

[hoshour]

I'm still sorting out the different state systems but it seems to me squared bonus points and a portion of the tags set aside for straight up random draw is the most fair way to go.

I have no idea why people put in for units that take 10 or more points to draw. Is it really worth not hunting that state for that many years and is the hunting that much better than other good units?

I think in CO units 2 and 201, the success rate on archery deer is something like 37% after putting in for 10-12 years! No thanks. It puts way too much pressure on the hunt to enjoy it and you could have been hunting other units nearly as good in the meantime.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I'm not really well-versed on draw systems, but I think preference-based draws stink. I think the fairest draw is where you get one ticket in the hat for every year you've applied. That way, everybody has some chance, and those who have been in the game the longest have the best chance. I am strongly against any system that excludes people, particularly the youth and beginning hunters.

***What you have stated shows that you aren't well-versed in draws because when you say PP systems stink and then say what you would like is exactly what and how a PP system works and it tends to exclude exactly those that you mentioned!

 

[In God We Trust]

Topgun, actually a PP system like Colorado does exclude everyone except those with max points so people with less than max do not even have a chance at the tag.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Topgun, actually a PP system like Colorado does exclude everyone except those with max points so people with less than max do not even have a chance at the tag.

That is correct and what is wrong with just about any PP system where a person doesn't get in and have max PPs. If units don't have a turnaround of less than 6-8 years IMHO they're not worth buying into. Wyoming is already a good example in that the system for NRs has only been in existence for 7 years and many units are taking max PPs every year already to even have a chance at drawing them and anyone with one less may never hit the jackpot. Give me a straight up random draw with possibly a waiting period of several years for those who draw top tags and then it's fair to everyone every year.

 

[velvetfvr]

I have no experience with pp but in Nv we have bonus points. Yeah random might be the fairest, but I know I will have almost a guaranteed chance at drawing a great tag with bonus points. With random, you face drawing less tags throughout your life then bonus points IMO.


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[Topgun 30-06]

I have no experience with pp but in Nv we have bonus points. Yeah random might be the fairest, but I know I will have almost a guaranteed chance at drawing a great tag with bonus points. With random, you face drawing less tags throughout your life then bonus points IMO.


***I've heard a lot of people say that they think NV has the best system going. My Wyoming buddy won't argue with that as he drew a primo archery elk tag for unit 6 this year with very few points and it really surprised him.

 

[velvetfvr]

I have no experience with pp but in Nv we have bonus points. Yeah random might be the fairest, but I know I will have almost a guaranteed chance at drawing a great tag with bonus points. With random, you face drawing less tags throughout your life then bonus points IMO.


***I've heard a lot of people say that they think NV has the best system going. My Wyoming buddy won't argue with that as he drew a primo archery elk tag for unit 6 this year with very few points and it really surprised him.

Nevada has the best IMO. It's totally random but you get bonus points that are squared. So the BP's get squared and that's how man times your name (#) is put in. It's really great.


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[Muleys 24/7]

Nevada has the best IMO. It's totally random but you get bonus points that are squared. So the BP's get squared and that's how man times your name (#) is put in. It's really great.


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Yea , I think most will agree NV has the best system

 

[In God We Trust]

That sounds like a pretty good way to run a draw system!

 

[Alabama]

It seems to me that Nevada has it right, just as others have stated. With totally random draws like Idaho and New Mexico you could theoretically draw a tag every year, even the best tags, but some people with rotten luck will never even draw a decent tag. Nevada gives those that have been in it the longest an advantage but nobody is excluded from a chance and they will draw a decent unit eventually. The odds are increased with every year that you apply. The only drawback is you can't really plan your hunts in advance because there's no guarantee you'll draw. The only way to plan is by knowing the max points it takes to draw in a PP state like Colorado, but that almost excludes anyone on the ground floor like myself. I understand where you guys are coming from with the preference points systems, they seem unfair at times. Those units that take 20-25 years to draw an elk or deer tag, I'll never hunt but that's ok there are tons of great units out there that don't require that many points. It's the sheep odds that make me groan. I'll never have a guarantee of hunting Idaho, even if I apply until the year I die. In Wyoming I'll eventually draw in my late 40's. It sucks but at least if I'm still alive I'll be hunting sheep! If not I look at it as an investment in the future conservation of that species. IMO random draws are the least fair to those of us that really love hunting and invest our time and money every year in those states that we hope to hunt one day.

 

[Don K]

..........

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Topgun, actually a PP system like Colorado does exclude everyone except those with max points so people with less than max do not even have a chance at the tag.

This staement is not true. Colorado has a Hybrid Draw that sets aside a small number of tags in premium, high demand deer, elk, antelope and bear units for a random draw. The units must have taken at least 10 points or more to draw historically and the applicant must have 5 points to their credit. (see page 5 of the current regs) While not ideal, it does offer a hunter the opportunity at one of these premium, high demand tags without them having max points. They can still hunt in other units by using second choice. I do this every year and have managed to hunt here every year. While my tag may not be as desireable, I still manage to fill my freezer and have the opportunity to be in the field hunting.

Pref points are just a means of states making more $$$$, IMHO. If you want to hunt in multiple states every year, you really need to do your homework and understand how each state approaches the application/draw of tags. The only other alternative is to spend lots of $$$$ and go with an outfitter. As a hunter gets older (like me!), you suddenly realize that you only have so many good years left to chase these critters over the mountains. I don't have enough time left to draw some of these great tags, so my choice get less, either give up or spend the $$$$ with an outfitter and get a landowner tag. Thats why my hunting budget gets higher every year (at least thats what I tell my very understanding wife).

 

[CoHiCntry]

Also moose, sheep, and goat in Colorado are on a weighted points system so anyone can draw regardless of how many points you have. More points just increases your odds of drawing.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I hunt in Wyoming every year and it doesn't have transferrable landowner tags or any licenses set aside for outfitters. Everything is by draw and then if there are any leftover licenses for deer, elk, or antelope the license go on sale in July on a first come first serve basis. This year the full price buck/bull ones go on sale on 7/10 and the doe/fawn and cow/calf ones on 7/17.

 

[Musket Man]

I like to have some chance to draw even if its very low. I find a true PP system like CO kinda discouraging to start applying for. Even if they put 1 tag in each unit up for grabs in a random draw it would make it alot more exciting! If I had to choose 1 I would pick the WY system but really Im glad different states have different systems. It makes the draws alot more interesting!

 

[nitis]

Nevada has the best system running not just because its bonus points but because you get 5 choices and can draw any of those five choices! I have drawn a 5th choice twice. Whats great is you can dream about those hard to get trophy ares mark them on your application but not be excluded from hunting.

Which is why I hate Idaho. You have to buy a license to apply then there is no guarantee that the hunt you apply for will even have 1 non resident drawn! Oh but thats OK because you can come hunt OTC hunts.

To me preference points can really hinder the youth not necessarilay now but 10-25-20 years down the line. Yes some states have special tags for youth but those youth are only youth for 4-6 years!

 

[In God We Trust]

CC you are right about Colorado having a hybrid system for deer and elk. It is a half ass hybrid system! If a unit for deer or elk takes more than 9 points ( may be 10 points) than you can put in for these tags if you have 5 or more points and they set aside a minimal amount of tags for these people. These tags give you a whopping .5% chance of drawing them!