Ever find yourself in No Man's Land with preference points?

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
8,348
4,741
83
Dolores, Colorado
I don't know CC, I may be inclined to look at another unit so I could hunt. Obviously you can draw a darn good unit with max points as you've got your pick of 95+% of them...
If it were me, I'd burn those points and hunt, but I understand your mindset of not wanting to settle after all this time.
Like my dad always says, "can't take it with you"....
I have been hunting the unit I want for 25 years. In that time I have taken some great bucks. The number of tags allocated has dropped over the years and the demand stayed high. I know the area well and in the past 10 years have seen some great bucks (180 to 200+)while antelope hunting. I am not willing to take a chance on other units that I have never hunted.
 

graybird

Active Member
Feb 22, 2011
388
119
Colorado
I personally have more fun hunting the same units every year than waiting years between hard to draw tags like some do. But others would rather just hunt if they have those premium tags. Constantly chasing the best units based on intel from the internet is not for everyone, that takes a certain kind of person and as you mentioned they must believe that the premium tag/units are going to give them the best opportunity to kill a huge animal to show off. I usually chalk the first year up to paying my dues in a unit as it takes me about 3-4 years to really get to know an area. But I also have more respect for a kid shooting a whitetail doe on public land than I do a guy who went on a guided/private hunt in a premium unit and shot a big animal so see things differently than some.
I get what you're saying 100% because I do the same here in Colorado, hunting the same unit year after year. I may not always have a tag in my pocket, but I get to hunt with my buddies.

However, the issue lies when hunting out of state and not being allowed the luxury of hunting year after year, or every couple of years. And, considering the fact of saving points for 6-8 years, that's were folks like me get stuck in the rut of not being able to go up a trophy tier with point creep. So, we are forced to make a decision on if/when to spend those points, and do we want to get back into the game, and what do we expect from the points game if we re-enter it.

Like CC above, I'm only 43 years old, but do I want to play the WY points game again? Sure I could draw a tag in some kind of unit in the future, but will it be the type of unit that I want to hunt.
 

Bonecollector

Veteran member
Mar 9, 2014
5,862
3,667
Ohio
I have been hunting the unit I want for 25 years. In that time I have taken some great bucks. The number of tags allocated has dropped over the years and the demand stayed high. I know the area well and in the past 10 years have seen some great bucks (180 to 200+)while antelope hunting. I am not willing to take a chance on other units that I have never hunted.
Makes sense CC. I hope you draw soon...
 

HighPlainsHunter

Active Member
Mar 1, 2018
419
3
Laramie
I get what you're saying 100% because I do the same here in Colorado, hunting the same unit year after year. I may not always have a tag in my pocket, but I get to hunt with my buddies.

However, the issue lies when hunting out of state and not being allowed the luxury of hunting year after year, or every couple of years. And, considering the fact of saving points for 6-8 years, that's were folks like me get stuck in the rut of not being able to go up a trophy tier with point creep. So, we are forced to make a decision on if/when to spend those points, and do we want to get back into the game, and what do we expect from the points game if we re-enter it.

Like CC above, I'm only 43 years old, but do I want to play the WY points game again? Sure I could draw a tag in some kind of unit in the future, but will it be the type of unit that I want to hunt.
I see. IMO no reason to wait 6-8 years between tags. Better off to hunt more often IMO.

For your situation you might consider going with a general tag. Plant to hunt WY Bulls every 2-4 years depending on which draw you use and future point creep, plus you will likely get a tag in the random draw at some point. In the years in between rotate cow tags, deer tags, and antelope tags for the same area. In a few years you know the area really well and can probably have a better elk hunt every 2-4 years than you could going into a new "trophy" unit hunt every 8+ years.

Hunting for another 20 years would mean you might draw 3 "trophy tags" (possibly only 2) versus having about 8 "General" tags.

That's an easy decision IMO. Especially since you are close so driving to Wyoming every year would not be a big deal.
 

DH56

Active Member
Jan 17, 2014
317
280
Northern, Ohio
I feel your pain. 14 bighorn sheep points here. And I?m 63 years old. The way I calculate it, I?ll be 70 at best unless I get real lucky. Some outfitter is going to have to tie me on a horse to get me up to where the sheep are.

Mackey
Ditto- I will be 63 this year as well. I want to hunt the area that I selected from the start, but I most likely will never draw there, so it may come down to another area to draw. I know my time is running out and at some point, I just may pull the plug. I'll see how I feel in a year or so. I use to hunt Wyoming every year for Deer and Antelope, and love the country, then my kids started college and I went to Canada a few times and now hope to get back this fall to hunt Muley's again.
 

NDHunter

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2011
1,166
25
North Dakota
The thing with Wyoming elk for NRs is that ALL units are experiencing point creep and a guy can't really expect to go back to the same unit every 2-3 years. Some of the units that 5 years ago took 1-2 points now take 5-6. A guy will never catch back up to them. If you really want to hunt the same area over and over, it'll have to be on a general tag.
 

mallardsx2

Veteran member
Jul 8, 2015
3,923
3,242
The thing with Wyoming elk for NRs is that ALL units are experiencing point creep and a guy can't really expect to go back to the same unit every 2-3 years. Some of the units that 5 years ago took 1-2 points now take 5-6. A guy will never catch back up to them. If you really want to hunt the same area over and over, it'll have to be on a general tag.
This is pretty much spot on according to all of the spreadsheets I have created and research I have done over the last couple of years trying to formulate plans. People are like sheep. I swear if someone sees a unit go up a couple points they feel the need to jump on the train and hunt the area. The weird part if that you would think there would be stability in other areas since more people are flocking to certain areas...but that doesn't appear to be the case. Almost all of the units experience it.

Is there a study done on the amount of people who apply for points in today VS 10 years ago anywhere online?

Maybe people will just get sick of hunting and the points will start going the other direction...instead of ^^^ lol probably not.
 
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NDHunter

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2011
1,166
25
North Dakota
Is there a study done on the amount of people who apply for points in today VS 10 years ago anywhere online?
WY publishes a report each year with how many people and at what point level going into the year. You have to save that data each year. Here are the numbers for number of people each year going into the draw with points:

2012: 40,829
2013: 43,848
2014: 47,860
2015: 52,458
2016: 59,378
2017: 67,256
2018: 77,484
2019: 87,969

Seems like in the last 3 years, the number of people jumping into the game has really increased. About 10,000 additional people coming into the system each year. I bet in 2025, the general tag will take 4-5 points in the regular draw.
 

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
8,348
4,741
83
Dolores, Colorado
WY publishes a report each year with how many people and at what point level going into the year. You have to save that data each year. Here are the numbers for number of people each year going into the draw with points:

2012: 40,829
2013: 43,848
2014: 47,860
2015: 52,458
2016: 59,378
2017: 67,256
2018: 77,484
2019: 87,969

Seems like in the last 3 years, the number of people jumping into the game has really increased. About 10,000 additional people coming into the system each year. I bet in 2025, the general tag will take 4-5 points in the regular draw.
Do they do a break down by animal: elk, deer, etc?
 

bdan68

Active Member
Nov 13, 2013
311
45
Rochester, Washington
Much of the large increase in the last year or two is likely due to the strong economy. I bet if we were to go into another recession, application numbers would drop. Another thing is fuel prices. A $2.00 increase in the price of a gallon of gas makes quite a bit of difference for someone who has to drive hundreds of miles just to get to where he's hunting.
 

NDHunter

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2011
1,166
25
North Dakota
Do they do a break down by animal: elk, deer, etc?
Yes they do. Sheep and moose as well. I was super surprised by the moose and sheep numbers. I assumed with the price increase on points, a bunch of people would drop out but the dropout rate really didn't change when compared to years past.
 

graybird

Active Member
Feb 22, 2011
388
119
Colorado
Yes they do. Sheep and moose as well. I was super surprised by the moose and sheep numbers. I assumed with the price increase on points, a bunch of people would drop out but the dropout rate really didn't change when compared to years past.
The true test will be what those numbers look like 5 years from now.
 

HighPlainsHunter

Active Member
Mar 1, 2018
419
3
Laramie
Yes they do. Sheep and moose as well. I was super surprised by the moose and sheep numbers. I assumed with the price increase on points, a bunch of people would drop out but the dropout rate really didn't change when compared to years past.
I'm sure G&F will notice as well. Time for another price increase for sheep, moose, and mtn goat. Griz will go up as well due to how many put in for what was going to be a very expensive bear tag.

Next will be an extra special draw, that will be double the special draw price.
 

Zim

Very Active Member
Feb 28, 2011
738
67
LaPorte, IN
Much of the large increase in the last year or two is likely due to the strong economy. I bet if we were to go into another recession, application numbers would drop. Another thing is fuel prices. A $2.00 increase in the price of a gallon of gas makes quite a bit of difference for someone who has to drive hundreds of miles just to get to where he's hunting.
In my opinion the driving force behind these numbers is publicity. Hunting application publications have rapidly expanded. In 1996 there was only a pamphlet stapled together by HF. But since then we have EMJ, Epic, goHunt, Hunters Trailhead, Toprut, etc, etc coming on the scene, spreading the message........Apply Apply Apply. Add to that all the hunting YouTube shows & podcasts, and the result was inevitable. By now it seems obvious most states are regretting their poorly thought out tag draw systems that are alienating the ground floor applicants, and more importantly, their MONEY. Guys like me with 20+ points in many states are now walking with targets on our backs, just waiting to get screwed. Sad but my top priority each spring is studying which states I have the most potential to get my points hosed in, via a "system change". And I strategize to burn these first. That is just the reality.
 

Bonecollector

Veteran member
Mar 9, 2014
5,862
3,667
Ohio
In my opinion the driving force behind these numbers is publicity. Hunting application publications have rapidly expanded. In 1996 there was only a pamphlet stapled together by HF. But since then we have EMJ, Epic, goHunt, Hunters Trailhead, Toprut, etc, etc coming on the scene, spreading the message........Apply Apply Apply. Add to that all the hunting YouTube shows & podcasts, and the result was inevitable. By now it seems obvious most states are regretting their poorly thought out tag draw systems that are alienating the ground floor applicants, and more importantly, their MONEY. Guys like me with 20+ points in many states are now walking with targets on our backs, just waiting to get screwed. Sad but my top priority each spring is studying which states I have the most potential to get my points hosed in, via a "system change". And I strategize to burn these first. That is just the reality.
I get where you?re coming from Zim. However it?s the theory of is the glass half full or half empty. If I had those number of points and as many species and states that you have, the glass would be near full. Id hunt a second tier unit for a different species every year and probably be tagging a booner. Best of luck to you my friend.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ColoradoV

Very Active Member
Oct 4, 2011
820
941
I guess I just have not found myself or family in no mans land with preference points. Wyo averages points so it seems with some info sharing or work scouting you can find someone willing to hand off a few points for some info... Pry the best way to spend extra points - well at least in wyo - in my opinion.

Never will I get to high point status in any state and I am ok with that as I dont see 25 points in the bank as a way to make a 200" buck jump in the back of my truck. Only hard work over several unit blocks in a year - at least in colorado - can help w that... Well that or a fat wallet n some private land lol. Some folks buy into the high point units game and chasing the newest fad seems the guys in the paid info sharing sector are making a killing off of the suckers who play that game.

Inet is what it is and not going away so info good and bad will be passed on.

As I have said before I like the mentality of hunters always looking for the next bestie or hard to draw unit to hunt as I keeps the lions share of the lemming at bay.

I have found that high points not a shortcut for work/time/effort but now if you got the luxury of both how does that play out? Well for me and after spending quite a bit of time for last few years in the fabled 44 - 3rd and 4th season for deer scouting for my father who might decided this is the year I can honestly say the biggest bucks I saw during that time (as well as one 200+ I killed) were not in 44 but different unit blocks that take 0-3 points.

Just the way I look at it and I honestly believe that we are living in the good old days right now and while it will never again be like getting spoiled growing up hunting bucks on the private land in eagle/pitkin counties every year w my father/grandfather - with the changes the world will see it pry will not get better than it is right now - so I would take advantage even if it means splitting points or leaving 1 or 10 on the table.
 
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