Any Biologists in the House? Is this how Ungulates Really See, in Yellow?

Canyon Stalker

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Aug 12, 2017
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Lately, I've been wondering about how animals percieve things, and as far as I can find people seem to think a protanopia (red blind) colorblind filter is representative of how their lack of red codes and presence of yellow and blue cones makes them see color. It makes just about everthing, green to hunter orange, look yellow. Is this an accurate of how their eyes really percieve things. Wouldn't this make yellow a good alternative to hunter orange in some circumstances? Just wondering.
 

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kidoggy

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Apr 23, 2016
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I am no biologist but wether they can see colors or not ,I would recommend not wearing a solid color. if you have to wear orange get it in a breakup pattern ,because while they may not see orange they can see it is not natural to the environment.

ask a human that is color blind. I worked with one once and he could tell the difference in different colors he just saw them in different shades of gray.
I would suspect it is the same for animals, so break up the pattern.as you would with any camo.

orange not mandatory here.

it may save some "accidents ", but ,in my mind,it also gives the fools that would shoot you, a better target to aim for.
 

Colorado Cowboy

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Jun 8, 2011
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I really don't think G & F folks care much about how the deer/elk, etc see us, it's how we see each other. Hunter Orange is just that ....for hunters to see each other.

Here in Colorado it looks like an invasion of pumpkins during rifle seasons. I hate having to wear so much orange! I also think the animals see us a lot easier than if we wore camo. I hunt muzzle loading season along with archery, both in the field at the same time...doesn't make a lot of sense. The archery folks can see us really well, but we can't see them. Wearing hunter orange is supposed to be for safety, but we sure don't get any more accidents during the mixed season than during rifle only. I hunted in California for 60 years (w/o hunter orange as the is no requirement...one of the few smart things California does for hunters) and there are very few accidents involving big game hunters.

Rant over.


Elk & deer may not be able to see orange, but they do see something unnatural with the background. Even with all conditions in my favor, I've seen them looking directly at me from several 100 yards away.
 

BrandonM

Active Member
Nov 9, 2011
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243
Bump this up again, I will get Brandon to comment on this.
Hey guys,

Brandon Mason here. Since I was a teen I've been enthralled with what ungulates, particularly deer, can and cannot see from a color spectrum standpoint. Many have researched this scientifically and the more it is studied, it appears the larger spectrum of colors they can see. However, they definitely do not see the same colors we see and they definitely do not see just black, white, and shades of gray.

I have taken numerous pictures throughout the years of various camo patterns in color, black and white, sepia, etc. These still don't represent what animals see.

As a general rule, they see shades of greens and blues fairly well and see reds and oranges very poorly. One of the biggest factors in determining whether or not they see you is if your camo or plaid shirt breaks up and destroys your human outline. When I was 16 I entered my first archery season with a white and black large pattern plaid insulated flannel, a camo headnet, old army camo cotton gloves, an old camo oil field hat my dad had given me and a pair of faded blue jeans. I had deer at 10 yards that didn't know what I was. Hunting in that water absorbing clothing, though, was less than desirable.

Fast forward to 2017 and being 40 years old with many archery seasons and camo patterns/clothing being used over the years as all of us have done and the continual evolution of camo amazes me; some good and some bad.

Before we were sponsored by Sitka on the TV show, I had heard many guys sing the praises of Sitka's Optifade Open Country and how they can get away with more simple movements when animals are close than other patterns they've worn. In 2016 and 2017 we have been able to wear the new Subalpine pattern extensively, and as Scott Reekers can attest to when we were bowhunting elk together in WY this year, this pattern DEFINITELY let us get away with more than others we've used. I'm not just saying this because we work with Sitka on many projects. The micro and macro patterns they have implemented in this new pattern are phenomenal by confusing the animals' eyes. The colors in the pattern are fantastic, too, but more important here is the pattern of the colors together itself.

In my experience, camo that has a base of tan, with greens and browns mixed in and moderate black really help to break up and destroy your human outline (much like the old ASAT and Predator patterns). Thankfully due to advancements in gear, we get great camo patterns along with performance fabrics for ultimate gear setups that make backcountry hunting much more pleasurable than our flannel and blue jean days.

The overall take-home message from my rambling here is this: solids blob you out, especially garments above the waist, and can make you stick out like a sore thumb - no matter the animal's level of color acuity. Break up and destroy your human outline and stay away from garments with blue in them and obviously buy the best technical gear you can afford to not only keep you more comfortable while out there, but safe, too.
 

Colorado Cowboy

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Jun 8, 2011
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Hey guys,

Brandon Mason here. Since I was a teen I've been enthralled with what ungulates, particularly deer, can and cannot see from a color spectrum standpoint. Many have researched this scientifically and the more it is studied, it appears the larger spectrum of colors they can see. However, they definitely do not see the same colors we see and they definitely do not see just black, white, and shades of gray.

I have taken numerous pictures throughout the years of various camo patterns in color, black and white, sepia, etc. These still don't represent what animals see.

As a general rule, they see shades of greens and blues fairly well and see reds and oranges very poorly. One of the biggest factors in determining whether or not they see you is if your camo or plaid shirt breaks up and destroys your human outline. When I was 16 I entered my first archery season with a white and black large pattern plaid insulated flannel, a camo headnet, old army camo cotton gloves, an old camo oil field hat my dad had given me and a pair of faded blue jeans. I had deer at 10 yards that didn't know what I was. Hunting in that water absorbing clothing, though, was less than desirable.

Fast forward to 2017 and being 40 years old with many archery seasons and camo patterns/clothing being used over the years as all of us have done and the continual evolution of camo amazes me; some good and some bad.

Before we were sponsored by Sitka on the TV show, I had heard many guys sing the praises of Sitka's Optifade Open Country and how they can get away with more simple movements when animals are close than other patterns they've worn. In 2016 and 2017 we have been able to wear the new Subalpine pattern extensively, and as Scott Reekers can attest to when we were bowhunting elk together in WY this year, this pattern DEFINITELY let us get away with more than others we've used. I'm not just saying this because we work with Sitka on many projects. The micro and macro patterns they have implemented in this new pattern are phenomenal by confusing the animals' eyes. The colors in the pattern are fantastic, too, but more important here is the pattern of the colors together itself.

In my experience, camo that has a base of tan, with greens and browns mixed in and moderate black really help to break up and destroy your human outline (much like the old ASAT and Predator patterns). Thankfully due to advancements in gear, we get great camo patterns along with performance fabrics for ultimate gear setups that make backcountry hunting much more pleasurable than our flannel and blue jean days.

The overall take-home message from my rambling here is this: solids blob you out, especially garments above the waist, and can make you stick out like a sore thumb - no matter the animal's level of color acuity. Break up and destroy your human outline and stay away from garments with blue in them and obviously buy the best technical gear you can afford to not only keep you more comfortable while out there, but safe, too.
That's all well & good....BUT what about all of the gun hunters here in Colorado. Should I wear striped orange so I look like a pumpkin? All jokes aside, we gun hunters don't have a lot of options! G & F doesn't really care what the animals can & cannot see, all they want is to be politically correct and say they are preventing shooting accidents by wearing orange, which is a bunch of BS as there is no proof of that when you compare accidental shootings statistics in states with no hunter orange requirements.
 

BrandonM

Active Member
Nov 9, 2011
209
243
Hey guys,

Brandon Mason here. Since I was a teen I've been enthralled with what ungulates, particularly deer, can and cannot see from a color spectrum standpoint. Many have researched this scientifically and the more it is studied, it appears the larger spectrum of colors they can see. However, they definitely do not see the same colors we see and they definitely do not see just black, white, and shades of gray.

I have taken numerous pictures throughout the years of various camo patterns in color, black and white, sepia, etc. These still don't represent what animals see.

As a general rule, they see shades of greens and blues fairly well and see reds and oranges very poorly. One of the biggest factors in determining whether or not they see you is if your camo or plaid shirt breaks up and destroys your human outline. When I was 16 I entered my first archery season with a white and black large pattern plaid insulated flannel, a camo headnet, old army camo cotton gloves, an old camo oil field hat my dad had given me and a pair of faded blue jeans. I had deer at 10 yards that didn't know what I was. Hunting in that water absorbing clothing, though, was less than desirable.

Fast forward to 2017 and being 40 years old with many archery seasons and camo patterns/clothing being used over the years as all of us have done and the continual evolution of camo amazes me; some good and some bad.

Before we were sponsored by Sitka on the TV show, I had heard many guys sing the praises of Sitka's Optifade Open Country and how they can get away with more simple movements when animals are close than other patterns they've worn. In 2016 and 2017 we have been able to wear the new Subalpine pattern extensively, and as Scott Reekers can attest to when we were bowhunting elk together in WY this year, this pattern DEFINITELY let us get away with more than others we've used. I'm not just saying this because we work with Sitka on many projects. The micro and macro patterns they have implemented in this new pattern are phenomenal by confusing the animals' eyes. The colors in the pattern are fantastic, too, but more important here is the pattern of the colors together itself.

In my experience, camo that has a base of tan, with greens and browns mixed in and moderate black really help to break up and destroy your human outline (much like the old ASAT and Predator patterns). Thankfully due to advancements in gear, we get great camo patterns along with performance fabrics for ultimate gear setups that make backcountry hunting much more pleasurable than our flannel and blue jean days.

The overall take-home message from my rambling here is this: solids blob you out, especially garments above the waist, and can make you stick out like a sore thumb - no matter the animal's level of color acuity. Break up and destroy your human outline and stay away from garments with blue in them and obviously buy the best technical gear you can afford to not only keep you more comfortable while out there, but safe, too.
I just watched this video that has some additional explanation on how ungulates probably see: https://youtu.be/DNe2PB3CSnA
 

hoshour

Veteran member
Colorado Regs
It is unlawful to ...Not wear at least 500 square inches of solid daylight fluorescent orange or solid florescent pink material above the waist on an outer garment while hunting deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, or moose during a muzzleloading or rifle season. Part of the fluorescent orange must be a hat or head covering visible from all directions. Camouflage orange or camouflage pink does not meet this requirement. Mesh garments are legal but not recommended.


OK, 500" of solid fluorescent blaze orange or pink is required, of which part must be a hat which is blaze orange or pink visible from all directions. A Sitka blaze orange beanie is a bit over 200 sq. in. If you don't have it over your ears, it is more like 100". That leaves 400".

The only requirement is that the fluorescent portion be solid. It doesn't say the solid has to be the same shape, just solid, i.e. contiguous. It can also be fluorescent mesh - "not recommended, but legal."

Idea #1 - For a 40" chest, 400 sq. in. is only a 10" wide band (40x10=400). Take fluorescent tape and wrap it around your camo jacket as a diagonal stripe 10? wide, making sure that you don't leave any holes. Cut it back from the zipper area.

Idea #2 - Cut off the bottom of your orange vest so that you leave 400", which won't be much, probably 1/3 of the length. It will look odd, but you'll show more camo. Or, cut off the bottom 10-12" and tape the edges around your jacket, similar to above.

The way I read the rules, that's a legal vest and hat combo of at least 500 solid inches of blaze orange or pink that is above the waist. You might want to run it past a warden and see what he thinks first.
 
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hoshour

Veteran member
The way I see it, the law mandates that you look like an idiot (a predator trying to stay hidden from his prey while wearing a solid fluorescent color) to save yourself from idiots who shoot at sounds. I don't think it makes much difference in hunting fatalities.

It reminds me of Will Rogers' question - "If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?"
 

kidoggy

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just curious, if you fail to wear the hunter orange in those states that require it, what is the penalty??

do they shoot you?:rolleyes:

thassu joke...
 

Colorado Cowboy

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Jun 8, 2011
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My belief is that the requirement to wear orange is more political than science.

In the late 40's/early 50's, there was no hunter education requirement and almost none for orange. There were more hunters in the field and accidental shootings increased. States did different things to try and solve this situation.

My Dad taught Hunter Safety Education in California for 50 years, I also taught with him. As these "educated" hunters entered the hunter population, accidental shooting decreased. They remain very low today.....and guess what.......California has no hunter orange requirement, never has.

Other states started hunter safety education and had orange clothing requirements. Their accidental shootings decreased too. My belief is that all of this is the result of the education and safety taught to new hunters, not the orange. If you ask Colorado Parks & Wildlife about accidental shooting during the mixed seasons of archery & muzzle loading gun hunting, there is almost no problem, even tho the bow hunters are fully camo'd up.

IMHO the requirement for hunter orange for gun hunters is pure politics!
 

kidoggy

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I would agree with that.
I was taught to shoot only when I know what I am shooting at.
only a fool shoots at a sound!
 

Catahoula12

Very Active Member
Apr 26, 2013
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Loveland, CO. was AZ.
That's all well & good....BUT what about all of the gun hunters here in Colorado. Should I wear striped orange so I look like a pumpkin? All jokes aside, we gun hunters don't have a lot of options! G & F doesn't really care what the animals can & cannot see, all they want is to be politically correct and say they are preventing shooting accidents by wearing orange, which is a bunch of BS as there is no proof of that when you compare accidental shootings statistics in states with no hunter orange requirements.
CC.....I agree with this orange(pumpkins)garb. I don?t know when this orange clothing was enlisted, long ago I?m sure. But, living and hunting deer and elk in Arizona the last 20 years or so I never heard of any accidental shootings of other hunters. Orange is not required for any hunts in Az. I moved back to Colorado and boom.... Orange. Although I try to mostly hunt with my bow I do hunt with rifles as well. Just weird to have to wear a vest n cap for rifle seasons. I think it is bs. I also am not an expert on animal eyesight, but I do believe they see solids for sure.
 

hoshour

Veteran member
Not only do they see patterns like solids, but as Brandon said, they see blues and greens very well and I also believe they see fluorescence.

Don't use your home's normal laundry detergent because it probably makes your clothes brighter by building in some UV brighteners, not to mention perfume, though I think the first issue is a bigger deal than the second.