x2 nv-hunter It seems like a new age of "entitlement hunters" is forming, The burn the farmer and hang the rancher mentality seems to go in to overdrive this time of year.... Any new land access needs and CAN be done with land trades, to say you would force access through private is absurd.
Wyoming Mule Deer Problems / Public land access / Point restrictions
- Thread starter Ilovethewest
- Start date
I agree 100% folks need to quit whining about the access issues when it come to chunks of locked up gov't land. There's plenty of other area's and opportunities to hunt without crying about not being able to access some chunk of BLM ground. However, while we're at it, I'd also like to see things taken a step further and end cowboy welfare. You know what I'm talking about; tax incentives and breaks no one else receives, gov't leases at below fair market value, and non stop gov't subsidies and handouts all doled out at the expense of the American taxpayer. Unless folks are Obama loving socialists, I'd think they'd support such an argument. Otherwise they'd just be hypocrites. Right?
HiMtnHnter
Active Member
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
What I don't understand is the difference between leasing the rights to gov't owned land in Wyoming and here in Colorado. Here in Co the cattle ranchers lease the grazing rights to Nat. For and BLM land. They fence off their leases, BUT cannot keep hunters out. Wyoming .....well thats sure different. I hunt on a ranch that has about 150, 000 acres of BLM leased and its fenced AND posted and patroled to keep out hunters w/o permission. The ranchers don't own it only lease it and they think and treat it as if the have the deed to it.
Just sayin..............
HiMtnHnter
Active Member
If there is not a public road to the BLM then it's off limits. If theres a public road to it then the rancher can't do anything to keep you off of it. I'm pretty sure it's basically the same in CO and WY.
I read an article about a recent land acquisition in WY by the state that quoted landowners adjacent to the property as being concerned about public hunters just "near" their fences. We're not talking about hunters begging for permission or even trespassing, they don't even want them NEAR their precious property. Some of us must be being very bad.
I completely understand that they only lease the grass, but in my opinion the price paid by the rancher to lease public land is very cheap in comparison to prices that would be paid for the alternative methods of grazing their livestock. I think the least that should be allowed in that situation is public access to the public land to hunt public wildlife. As said before there are more than enough good land owners out there that should be publically recognized for the great job they do managing their land and wildlife while still providing public access. Also, I disagree with the statement that the only lands that make it to WIA and Hunter management and the areas outfitters do not want due to lack of game. I have hunted plenty of excellent WIA and Hunter managment areas that IMHO were supurb!
HiMtnHnter
Active Member
Also, I disagree with the statement that the only lands that make it to WIA and Hunter management and the areas outfitters do not want due to lack of game. I have hunted plenty of excellent WIA and Hunter managment areas that IMHO were supurb![/QUOTE]
I agree. If the G&F limits access (ie: not vehicle travel, except for maybe game retrieval) and sets permit numbers relative to the size of the property, the hunting can be very good. Some of them are way over hunted.
I agree. If the G&F limits access (ie: not vehicle travel, except for maybe game retrieval) and sets permit numbers relative to the size of the property, the hunting can be very good. Some of them are way over hunted.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
Here in Colorado, if its leased for grazing (BLM or NF), its still public land....roads or no roads. I've actually climbed fences and hunted public land that was leased for grazing. It is not illegal to do it here. The big difference here is that they don't keep most of the cattle on it year round. On most of it they move them off around October 1. It really amazes me that there is such a big difference in how publically owned land is managed.
shootbrownelk
Veteran member
I guess you don't hunt antelope where I used to. Those 3 walk-in areas were terribly overgrazed, even the sagebrush.
shootbrownelk
Veteran member
Condemnation is done all the time in eastern states for public access, for access to lakes for fishing or for hunting. It just won't get done in Rancher controlled Legislatures in western states. It's not absurd, it's for the common good of the majority. Heck, I've even seen the state of Wyoming condemn land for access for a gravel pit for a private company.
I didn't say all WIA's were great, I merely stated there are some very good ones out there.
I don't remember saying I hate ranchers. I seem to remember talking about some fine people that used to let me and my family hunt. Great people. and they were ranchers.
But to say there are not problems? that's either naïve or you are just not being honest.
I will use a real life example.
There is a chunk of BLM, about 4x5 miles. It is completely landlocked. That BLM land is paid for with tax dollars. There is a road that goes through about 20 miles of private land that is maintain by the state/fed road dollars, and that road leads to the BLM land. Yet, it is a "private" road and nobody can drive on it b/c outfitters have it shut down. Now explain to me how having a publically maintaited road, leading to a publicly bought land, a public maintained land......yet having it all shut down except for a few local ranchers.............tell me how that is fair to the taxpayer? tell me how that isn't government "welfare"??? Everyone else is paying for all of that, yet the only people using the resource is a few ranchers.
The problem lies with the bad apples............for every slob hunter out there ruining it for hunters, there is a slob rancher ruining the image of ranchers.
Things can be done to improve things. But it will take both sides to work together. I am sure that access to the 4x5 mile area I am talking could be obtained. But it would take cooperation and a willingness to do what is RIGHT, not just what helps yourself.
These issues are complex. But having anger and hatred toward the other side does no good in the long run.
But to say there are not problems? that's either naïve or you are just not being honest.
I will use a real life example.
There is a chunk of BLM, about 4x5 miles. It is completely landlocked. That BLM land is paid for with tax dollars. There is a road that goes through about 20 miles of private land that is maintain by the state/fed road dollars, and that road leads to the BLM land. Yet, it is a "private" road and nobody can drive on it b/c outfitters have it shut down. Now explain to me how having a publically maintaited road, leading to a publicly bought land, a public maintained land......yet having it all shut down except for a few local ranchers.............tell me how that is fair to the taxpayer? tell me how that isn't government "welfare"??? Everyone else is paying for all of that, yet the only people using the resource is a few ranchers.
The problem lies with the bad apples............for every slob hunter out there ruining it for hunters, there is a slob rancher ruining the image of ranchers.
Things can be done to improve things. But it will take both sides to work together. I am sure that access to the 4x5 mile area I am talking could be obtained. But it would take cooperation and a willingness to do what is RIGHT, not just what helps yourself.
These issues are complex. But having anger and hatred toward the other side does no good in the long run.
birdhunter
Active Member
In Wyoming, if you can get public land, you can hop the fence and hunt on it. If it is land locked public land you can hunt on it if you can get to it. If you have to skydive onto it then so be it. It seems to be the same as Colorado. If you can float down a creek without touching the bottom or the banks, you can get to public land that way. Can't own the water here. The dirt underneath the water is a different story though. I will say that there are some good landowners and bad landowners. I have seen a lot post signs on their leased lands that say a person cant hunt. They wouldn't be able to do a thing about it if someone walked in and hunted though.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
If this is a true county road and maintained with county tax dollars, then someone should go to the county comissioners meeting and ask why access/use of it is closed. If the county has actual ownership of the road, then it should be open to the public. Hire a lawyer and go after them.
Not absurd to me, here in the South we call them easments and right of ways.
I dont know what the answer is, but something should be done to ensure the lay man a chance to hunt. Big Money and capitalism is not the best friend for hunting. I know there are plenty of places to hunt, but it appears a lot of those places are not quality places to hunt (some places are almost void of animals, and Im not just talking WY).
I do like the micro-manged idea though.