WY G&F in Financial Trouble...

[BKC]

I agree with you guys on Montana. I have a good friend who would like me to come to Montana and hunt but the buying of a license just to get in the draw is too screwey for me. It might make sense for some but not for me. I think most G & F are pricing out of state tags right to the point that the revenue works out in their favor. Raise the tag costs and a lot fewer hunters apply or buy tags and their revenue goes the other way. It happens with everything you buy, it is about what the market will bear.I'm lucky I live in Colorado where instate fees are more than fair and we have just about anything you want to hunt. I have hunted in other states but it is hard to beat the deal I get here.

 

[Triple BB]

$66k, big whoop. The per capita income in the state is in the low 50's. You can go drive a truck in the oil field with nothing more than a high school diploma for $60 - $70k. Cleaning up the Fed's mess with bears and wolves are some of the bigger expenses draining the G&F budget. The G&F can certainly cut some fat and they should, however license fee increases will happen and it'll be sooner than later.

 

[Triple BB]

There is always a point at which price increases become counterproductive by driving off too many customers. The revenue loss is more than what you gain from the higher prices. Just simple economics. I think many Game and Fish departments are just about there.

Have you looked at the non resident draw odds in Wyoming lately? Demand for most antelope, deer and elk area's far exceeds supply. The way to bring it into equilibrium is charge more. That's if you're talking simple economics...

 

[Ilovethewest]

I find it funny that people always cry the "cut the wages" chant anytime there is a money issue............unless they happen to be in that field. You never hear someone say "cut my wage" it is always "cut someones elses wage"..............just an observation over the years.

my wife faced a similar situation as a teacher in Wisconsin. many people were shouting for cuts in pay, even some people with govt jobs in different areas. They sang a different tune when their budgets and salaries were cut. and..........when several small businesss closed in our small town due to lack of sales, shortly after all these cuts, they cried fowl too.

the moral is people who have money, spend money. poor people don't spend money. cut wages so everyone is poor, and we all suffer.

 

[mnhunter]

Wow.....a game warden makes more than I did as 2LT leading a recon PLT in AFG, and makes almost as much as I do now as a Major in the US Army?!?! I might have to consider a career move, probably pretty much the same risk patrolling during the first weekend of antelope gun season.

 

[Ilovethewest]

but this is a state issue, and I am not a WY resident, so this is your guys fight. My only stake in this is non-resident tags fees. as a member of a family who has spent tens of thousands of dollars in tag fees in Wyo since the 50's, it is a shame that we contantly get hammered with high tag fees. There is a reason I do not hunt Montana.

as in most cases, some Middle Ground needs to be found that spreads out the pain and benefits all parties involved.

Have a good day everyone!!!!!!

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Wow.....a game warden makes more than I did as 2LT leading a recon PLT in AFG, and makes almost as much as I do now as a Major in the US Army?!?!

I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I saw this!!! Used to be the military (and for that matter government in general) made less than their civilian counterparts. When I was drafted in 1963 after I graduated from college, I was paid $78.00 a month, provided a roof over my head, food and uniforms! Great first full time job with a college degree!

Disclaimer......as a disabled vet, I am in no way disrespecting our military. Without them, we would be nothing. Just saying........

 

[mnhunter]

No offense taken

I actually love my choice of careers, even with all the crappy vacation it has sent me on over the last decade, I wouldn't have done anything different. I might have found a career for after I retire though.

 

[xtreme]

I was in the $78.00 crowd a little before CC. I did get an extra $65.00 for jump status. There needs to be some changes made.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I definitely don't vote for tripling resident fees.....

I'll second that one Jen. Our resident fees are high enough.

 

[canvsbk]

This subject and resident preference points raged on for weeks this winter over on MM. It quickly evolved into simple name calling with little or no original suggestions for a fix. Lots of finger pointing though.

 

[WapitiBob]

The fix is the end user pays more money. Comments of the Dept operating more efficiently, like a business, etc, etc, are nothing but white noise. They're a bureaucracy, that's how they operate, and it's not changing.

 

[AT Hiker]

Another helpful fix would be to charge an access fee for non-hunters, you know the millions of non-hunters and non-fisherman that utilize the public spaces for free. Maybe the dreaded "tax increase" would help, or make it a legislative decision that everyone that hikes, camps, bird watches, etc has a conservation stamp. Hunters and Fisherman front the bill for ALL wildlife management, then we are turned around and sued by anti's and guess where the money comes from...wildlife management.

On the salary note, $66k starting is pretty steep. But it sounds like it is just a tad higher than the average wage in WY, so I have no problem with it. But they could offer early retirement and buyouts to get rid of some of the "upper management" that is likely duplicated throughout the state.

 

[CoHiCntry]

Residents need to pony up and pay more. Even a minimal increase with the amount of resident licenses sold would make a big difference. Not just in Wyoming, but all states in my opinion should increase resident fee's and quit gouging non-residents. I don't have a problem with what the salaries are. If you want good qualified people you have to pay good wages.

 

[Ilovethewest]

in Wisconsin, we have state park stickers that you must have to go into a state park with a vehicle whether your hunting, fishing, or hiking or whatever. Never been to Yellowstone, or any wyo state park, but something similar would help, and that would also bring in money from people other than hunters/fishers.

I know many of you resident Wyoming hunters will hate me.........but it does suck being a non-resident and paying huge license fees. Especially if your hunting Federal Land. Federal Land is paid with Federal Tax dollars, and I living in Wisconsin pay just as much as a Wyoming resident when it comes to Federal lands. So I would rather see an increase in Resident tag prices than another incease in non-resident.

But in general, I hate always sticking it to hunters and fisherman. I don't want to see ANY tag price increased.

Finding ways to get money from all the other people who use and enjoy the land and wildlife seems a more fair route. Havent been to Devils tower in decades.....but are their vehicle fees to go there? if not, there should be. Maybe certain "scenic roads" in the black hills or in the bighorns, tetons or ect. You would have to be creative, but simply gouging us non-resident hunters more and more does not seem fair to me. There are also trails in Wisconsin that you must have a "trail pass" to bike, hike, or walk on. Those passes cost money. I am sure something like that could be implemented to help the finances of the WGFD.

It is sad that us hunters always pay the price and the non-hunters simply whine and get their way.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Just a couple off the cuff comments:
First--- I have no idea where the salary information came from because the current salary range for a starting Warden up through a top supervisoy level with seniority ranges from $42,768 to $77,400. That's a far cry from the BS the OP is putting out about the average guy CLEARING $5,500 a month. With the college degree that's required just to be able to be in the mix for a job, that is not that much money in this day and age, especially one in LE dealing with persons who are armed out in the boonies, along with the other multiple duties their position requires!
Second---The NR fees amount to about 80% of the money taken in by the G&F on a yearly basis. When you look at the measily fees paid by residents and all the licenses that are available to them for a fraction of the NR fees, it is more than ridiculous! I'm not saying that the fees should be tripled, but in many cases they could be doubled and they wouldn't be out of line. A resident can buy every license available to them and shoot over a dozen animals a year for less than what one NR deer license costs! IMHO they need to pony up to help THEIR G&F Department that does a fantastic job with the money they take in to oversee the huge number of things that are mandated of them.
Third---A new way to increase funding of the Department is definitely needed, as was mentioned by others. It could be a fraction of a cent on fuel, a few cents tacked onto a motel room, a stamp required of anyone using state and federal land, rather than just hunters paying the freight, etc.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Have you looked at the non resident draw odds in Wyoming lately? Demand for most antelope, deer and elk area's far exceeds supply. The way to bring it into equilibrium is charge more. That's if you're talking simple economics...

I think the way Wyoming G&F figures is, if one guy or group can't afford the tag fees there is always someone with deeper pockets who'll buy that tag offered, whatever the cost. Had a warden tell me once (years ago) that they like it that way. More money from fewer hunters (the special license fee). He said, what's their alternative? Hunting elk at home in Illinois? There are not enough tags to satisfy the demand, and never will be.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

There has always been more demand than available decent tags, but that will end up running it's course one of these years like it already has in Idaho and Montana where they are now crying for hunters to buy tags that aren't being sold.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

While I am not defending the G & F pay to their staff, one thing to remember is that what they publish is the salary range is not the true dollars budgeted. In private industry where I was employed for 40 years in upper management(2 large multinational aerospace companies), the money shown annually on W2 forms is not the true amount. We used to figure at least 33 % additional for benefits, sometimes more (vacation, holidays, retirement, medical, etc). Being government I am sure it is much higher.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

We're talking salary and normally, no matter what position you're talking about, there are fringe benefits that also figure into each person on the payroll like you mentioned. Here are stats right off the net and they aren't out of line with other states listed:

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of May 2011, the mean annual Fish and Game Warden Salary was $55,670, with Maryland offering the highest Game Warden pay at $69,410 (median annual). The lowest of the high paying states was Wyoming, coming in at $52,370 (median annual salary). The BLS indicates that Game and Fish Warden pay in some states can start at $27,090 per year. Those with additional education tend to earn more than Game Warden's who do not have degree's.

Game Warden Salary

Annual Median Salary

National Average
$55,670

Maryland
$69,410

Washington
$61,180

North Dakota
$54,440

Wyoming
$52,370

Texas
$52,980


Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics as of May 2011, http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333031.htm