Wolves and Bears Impacting Northwest Wyoming Elk Strategies

Scott Jones

New Member
Nov 27, 2016
4
0
My family has owned property in Moran, Wyoming for 65 years. I have guided and hunted that area since birth. I've noticed elk bugling less each year and historical ranges changing drastically since wolf re-introduction. Furthermore, due to increased competition between bears and wolves, I'm calling in predators more and more during bow hunts. This makes sense. A cow call is much like ringing the dinner bell these days. 2 years ago Governor Meade insisted he was going to work tirelessly to restore a wolf season in our state. I can find no evidence of this. Now, even in Area 19 near Casper, we are seeing increased wolf numbers. 5 came in to a whitetail bow kill on Smith Creek in mid September. We have pictures to prove it. Can anyone help me understand where we are with renewing a wolf take in Wyoming?
 

hoshour

Veteran member
The ownership of the wildlife within a state is a feud that has gone on for a long time. It is not addressed in the US Constitution except that under the 10th Amendment all rights not specifically given to the federal government belong to the states. Of course, the federal government has gone very much against that for well over 100 years, usually by invoking the interstate commerce clause.

In 1896, in Geer v. Connecticut, the US Supreme Court ruled that wildlife belonged to the states. That was explicitly reversed in a 1979 case called Hughes v Oklahoma and the federal government was named by the Court as the highest authority over wildlife.

Since then, while states argue that in order to effectively manage wildlife for the public trust using the North American Model of Wildlife Management that they must be in control of the game within their borders, the government has increasingly taken control with laws like the Endangered Species Act and the expansion of federal agencies like the EPA.

Since the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled in Geer that the feds have the highest authority over the wildlife across America, and there is no higher political authority in America than the U.S. Supreme Court, environmental groups opposed to hunting have effectively used hand-picked friendly federal courts to their great advantage.

For the Wyoming governor to declare that wolves should be unprotected in 100% of Wyoming, not just 80%, he has to fight federal agencies, environmentalists, the media, these federal courts and the Wyoming legislature. My understanding is that the Wyoming legislature has tied the hands of the WYGF in several matters and that they have more say than the governor. Maybe someone local with more knowledge of Wyoming politics can comment on this.

So, whether you are talking grizzlies or wolves, it is not just environmental groups you have to fight, it is all the groups I mentioned above, not as easy as you might think just using common sense.

Here's a good background on the legal history of the question of what level of government has the highest authority over wildlife - http://scholarship.law.campbell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=clr
 
Last edited:

mntnguide

Very Active Member
A couple months ago...the Wyoming wolf issue was brought back up in front of federal judges in means to Overturn the current ruling, which would pave the way for another season...I dont believe they have made a ruling still, but hopefully it should come soon
 

xtreme

Very Active Member
Feb 25, 2011
859
4
Searcy, Arkansas 72143
I have to assume things are about to change. I believe a president Trump will reign in most of the three letter agencies and I am sure he will use common sense. I have never understood the need for wolves and there are sure too many griz. Imo
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
909
952
I have to assume things are about to change. I believe a president Trump will reign in most of the three letter agencies and I am sure he will use common sense. I have never understood the need for wolves and there are sure too many griz. Imo
Wont happen...mainly because a president is not an elected king.

Even a president doesn't get to pick and choose the established laws they follow. The incoming president is going to find that out really quickly, or he wont be around long.

Wyoming is the reason that Wyoming doesn't have control of wolves. You cant enter into agreements with the Federal Government and 2 other states then try to play tuffie and back out on what you agreed to. It sounds fun to play the Marlboro man until you're in front of a Federal Court explaining why you don't deem it necessary to live up to your part of the bargain.

The Ag dominated Legislature of Wyoming is 100% to blame on this. Montana and Idaho have both had great success in managing wolves. They lived up to their end of the bargain, they adopted state plans that met the requirement of their agreements with the USFWS.

For the record, the States still have full and complete control over all wildlife within its borders, other than anadromous fish, migratory waterfowl, and T&E species.

The best 17 minutes you'll watch in regard to states rights in regard to wildlife from Randy Newberg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqglAucuZ34
 

hoshour

Veteran member
Not so.

If "the states have full and complete control over all wildlife within its [sic] borders" except certain fish, migratory waterfowl and threatened and endangered species it is because the federal government and federal courts have allowed it, not because the US Supreme Court has upheld that standard - just the opposite, as shown above. And, environmental groups would have given up using federal courts to get their way, which has certainly not happened.

If we get back to presidents like the currently departing one, that are for enormous expansion of federal control, it could still be trouble. Hunters cannot rest on these issues.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
909
952
hoshour,

I'm not going to go 15 rounds with you on this issue, but you are lacking in the basic understanding of how our representative republic works, why the Federal Government controls some wildlife, as well as the constitutional authority of our republic.

The 3 particular instances of the "federal" control of wildlife has nothing to do with the Supreme Court or a sitting president. Anadromous fish, Migratory birds, and T&E species are all controlled through Acts of Congress. It makes sense for a lot of reasons for them to control all 3 of those particular cases. It would make no sense for Idaho, for example, to have steelhead and salmon hatcheries/spawning habitat if Washington and Oregon killed every steelhead/salmon that entered the Columbia. The Feds have to intervene to make sure that there is enough escapement, so that anadromous fish reach spawning habitat, hatcheries in Idaho...and also that Idaho Residents have some fish to catch. That's why there is Federal "control".

Same with migratory birds, where large portions of the birds aren't even reared in the United States. It makes total sense for the Feds to control that, for a lot of reasons including but not limited to, entering into treaties and agreements with other countries where the birds migrate to and from, consistent bag limits across the flyways, etc. It would be an absolute nightmare if every state had to enter into treaties and acts with Russia, Canada, Mexico, etc. Would also be a nightmare trying to get 49 states on the same page with regard to bag limits, seasons, etc.

Finally, T&E species control via the Feds is also a good idea. The reasons are many, but there has to be over-sight when a species is required by law/act to be recovered. It also makes sense from a funding standpoint, that the Federal Government pay a vast majority of the bill for recovery efforts. Without funding and over-sight by the feds, there would be nothing to compel a state to recover a species and there would be inconsistent funding and management between the States. Again, it would make no sense to have 5 different recovery plans, or for ONLY the individual states to be saddled with the cost of recovering a T&E species.

What you have to keep in mind, is that these 3 cases, were specifically excluded by Acts of Congress...not the President. Again, the President, I don't care who they are, simply cannot sweep in and take control of wildlife within a states borders, other than the 3 specific cases I mentioned. Further, a President cannot swoop in and nullify the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, Endangered Species Act, Mitchel Act, etc. etc. Sure, they could attempt to do so, but good luck with that. I would reckon that any President that attempted to force Congress to repeal the Migratory Bird Treaty Act is going to be met with some severe backlash not only from Congress, but also those that he/she works for (American Public).

But, to say that any President can just take over the control of wildlife like deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. that are under state control is not being truthful. If so, I would really like you to identify the laws/regulations/statutes that the Feds have passed in regard to elk, deer, pronghorn, moose, bighorn, badgers, fox, marten, mink, etc. etc. etc. in any State in the Union.

The rights of the individual States to control wildlife within their borders has been upheld by Supreme Court decisions, except those expressly reserved by the United States Government via Acts of Congress.

Take 17 minutes and watch the video...