What would you do with my 270 win?

[theddguide]

Well I don't post much here, mostly read/lurk around here reading everything everyone has to talk about. Anyway here's my deal:

I'm looking to send in my vx3i to get the cds installed on it to put back on my xbolt 270. I'm currently shooting nosler trophy grade 130 accubonds through it and they seem to be accurate enough for me. I haven't shot much for groups but am confident they're 1in or less usually. In regards to the scope situation, I recently bought a pro chrono and shot 5 rounds through it yesterday (set up about 8ft in front) and got the following numbers: (the box advertises 3075)
2962, 2868,2986,2969,2969

Being a 22 in barrel I expected less than advertised so I'm just wondering are these numbers normal? And was the 2868 a fluke round in the box? Would you keep shooting these and set up the cds dial for them or get some hand loads done? It's not as convenient for me but I do have access.

Thanks for any input.

Derek

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[theddguide]

Btw if I stick with these I was thinking of just going with 2970 and calling er good. What do you think?


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[Tim McCoy]

I’d probably fire a few more through the chrono. That one reading is concerning. If you can’t duplicate it, write it off to a chrono quirk is probably what I’d do.

 

[AKaviator]

Personally, I'd shoot a few more thru the chronograph. Mostly because I like doing it, but I've owned a couple chronographs and it's really not unusual to see a shot or two deviate from the string. It could be on that shot a cloud covered it or something else.

Since you want to have your CDS set for that load, a few more downrange to be confident in the number seems appropriate, your 2970 will likely work good however.

 

[theddguide]

Thanks for the input fellas. I had the itch too bad to know more so I just shot more through it along side my 308 hand loads with 165 interbonds sitting on 42gr imr3031 if I remember correctly. I'm surprised at the speed on them as I recall the book said I should be around 2650, that's an x bolt also. I should note the last 3 shots on the 270 and last 1 shot on the 308 I moved the chrono back a couple feet thinking muzzle blast might be a factor and well you see.

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[theddguide]

I'll be honest after shooting this much more idk how confident I am with this expensive nosler stuff

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[mcseal2]

My 243 and 270 are both pretty slow with Nosler ammo but shoot it very well. I was getting more consistent speeds but my 24" 270 with that same 130gr load only averaged 2964fps. My 24" 243 got 3007fps with the 90gr Accubond.

FWIW I have a couple VX-6 scopes that I need to get pulled off and sent to Leupold customer service. Both of them are having issues with dialing elevation. I'm more than a little down on Leupold's CDS system right now. I've been a Leupold customer for years and these VX-6 scopes have glass and a reticle (TMOA) I absolutely love. I'm not sure I'll trust Leupold again for a while as a dialing scope. When I get these back I'll probably sell them.

 

[280ackimp]

The chronograph is the truth teller!
I have had slow rifles and rifles that read more consistently. The slow rifles are gone, most had factory bbls and were not as smooth as customs that gave a higher velocity. When ammo companies check for specs they are using controlled items, actions and custom bbls and test in an atmospherically controlled shooting chamber. Production guns have chambers with differing chamber dimensions (old vs new reamers), barrels that are not as smooth as some and dimensions on internals that vary greatly due to tooling age.
Your average spread looks good except for the 1 round in the 28's ? I would run more over the screens. QC is pretty good on the nosler stuff from what I see -group size and reasonable impact velocity are determining factors for most.

My notes show every bbl will read differently with an identical load.
I've never used turrets or BDC aids. Knowing the load & rifle and target distance and corresponding holdover is how I hunt. Perhaps it an age thing..... think...old dog no new tricks?

 

[ScottR]

Thanks for posting this theddguide, this was a fun read for the information alone!

Bottom line for me is if you are happy with the results, but it looks like a fair amount of variation.

 

[theddguide]

Thanks for the comments guys. I decided yesterday that I'm just gonna dive into reloading myself. I can't handle the thought of what may be inside that factory case when I perhaps may have the crosshairs on a trophy; possibly being another dud of you will. I've helped my father in law (who is now passed and did my 308 loads) reload a couple times and after watching just a few refresher videos on you tube I'm confident I can do well with them and hopefully tighten up the numbers on that 308 as well. At least I've saved all the nosler brass for the 270 from 2 boxes so far so I'm pretty happy about having the good brass already formed to my chamber to start with. We shall see what happens. Might just have to buy another box to have even more brass lol.

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[mcseal2]

The chronograph is the truth teller!
I have had slow rifles and rifles that read more consistently. The slow rifles are gone, most had factory bbls and were not as smooth as customs that gave a higher velocity. When ammo companies check for specs they are using controlled items, actions and custom bbls and test in an atmospherically controlled shooting chamber. Production guns have chambers with differing chamber dimensions (old vs new reamers), barrels that are not as smooth as some and dimensions on internals that vary greatly due to tooling age.
Your average spread looks good except for the 1 round in the 28's ? I would run more over the screens. QC is pretty good on the nosler stuff from what I see -group size and reasonable impact velocity are determining factors for most.

My notes show every bbl will read differently with an identical load.
I've never used turrets or BDC aids. Knowing the load & rifle and target distance and corresponding holdover is how I hunt. Perhaps it an age thing..... think...old dog no new tricks?

Interesting about the factory vs custom. My 270 has a Pac-Nor barrel so it should be good I'd think. My heavy 264WM has always been faster than the book shows with re-loads, but it has a Lilja barrel I bet is pretty darn smooth.

 

[rammont]

I don't see where the factory results are all that poor, factory ammo just isn't going to be the best for any specific rifle unless you are just lucky. The factory uses a different barrel length and action than you are so that will cause different results. Also, the chronograph needs to be about 10 or 15 feet from the muzzle (I prefer 15 feet) so that gases wont create errors.

Looking at your numbers it looks to me like the true muzzle velocity value for those loads are closer to 2970 fps. It looks like (from Nosler's online reloading info) Nosler used a 24" Shilen barrel for their testing so your shorter barrel will produce about 70 fps less muzzle velocity, around 3005 fps . That means that your average chronograph velocity (adjusted for it being 8 feet from the muzzle) is about 35 fps slower than I'd expect, that's really not that bad since all rifles vary somewhat due to chamber differences.

If you want more accurate information then I'd;

1. Make sure that the chronograph is 15 feet away from the muzzle.
2. Make sure that the chronograph is level (not being level adds error to the true velocities).
3. Make sure that the weather conditions are within the manufacturer's recommendations (cloudy days for an optical device are bad).
4. Compensate for the distance that the chronograph is from the muzzle (find a ballistic calculator that allows you to use increments of 5 feet for the range so that the resulting chart shows a muzzle velocity value for 15 feet, then adjust the muzzle velocity value until the muzzle velocity at 15 feet is the same as your chronographed average muzzle velocity)
5. Do one or two 10 round groups or at least 4 groups of 5 rounds, this will help get more statistically accurate SD and average values.

 

[theddguide]

Thanks for the advice.

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[theddguide]

Just got done shooting both guns again after reloading my own this time. I tried some h4831sc I the 270 from 56.5g- 59.5g. Let's just say I'm not satisfied with the results. Accuracy for all grain weights was similar at about 1 in to 1.5 in and didn't break 2900fps till 58.5g and at 59.5 the average was 2935. Probably normal for the particular charge but accuracy just isn't what I'm looking for.
As for the 308 I loaded up some 165 ballistic tips at the 42g of 3031 as previously mentioned to more or less check the velocity as what my father in law had loaded. Low and behold my rifle shot an average velocity of 2760 with it. The manual shows that at 43g at longer barrel. It's that normal? Although i got my best accuracy with that powder charge up to 42.9g and avg velocity 2785. Should I stick with the original 42g or go higher? The attached pics show the primers, the 5 had 42g and the other was 42.9g, ignore the ejector marks as they were already there. Am I over pressured? They don't look overly flattened to me.

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[Colorado Cowboy]

Primers look fine to me. How does the .308 group with the hotter load? I would shoot the hottest load that groups the best and does not show signs of excessive pressure.

Looks like your going to have to find what the .270 likes. I have found that sometimes even 1/2 grain above or below will group better. What I generally do is pick your powder, bullet & primer and stick with those for strings of groups. I pick a mid range load to start at and load 3, increasing the load 1/2 grain until you get to max. I just shoot 3 shot groups, numbering them in a tablet and number each target the same. Chrono if you want to. The only variable is the powder charge. It took me 5 different powders before I found a load that my .300 Wby liked.



This is my .220 Ackley Improved Swift. It loves hot loads and shoots almost in the same hole.

 

[theddguide]

My best group was half an inch or less at 42.9g. And that's at 278* fps. Just seems like unreal speed with 165s outta a 22 in barrel to me. The next best group was at 42 and 42.3 at about an inch with a flyer here and there. I say about on everything cuz I'm not very great at target shooting but have been working at my skills the last couple years for sure. A one inch group sure kills s*** for me tho

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[Colorado Cowboy]

I would use the 42.9 gr load in a heartbeat!!

 

[theddguide]

It's funny you say that cuz I've been telling myself I'll just stick with 42 since its what I've been shooting and it still gets good velocity with a bit less pressure. Now you got me thinking otherwise lol. Btw, what would the effects be by seating the bullet deeper or further out? Realistically I'm not going to test several loads at several bullet seating depths to find the best accuracy, it's either plenty good for me or meh i think i can do better. My previous loads from the father in law were at an overall length of 2.785 and the ones I just loaded were at 2.797.

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[Colorado Cowboy]

No effect at all on pressure. But accuracy is a different matter. I like to seat my bullets out fare enough so that there is around .100 gap between the bullet contact and the rifling. BUT....not all chambers are equal. Get a chamber measuring tool (Brownells has them) and check dimensions and then try different depths until you find the one that shoots best. Make sure you don't leave the bullet out so far that the round is too long to fit in the magazine.

 

[6mm Remington]

The 270 with 130 gr. Accubonds or Partitions should just cuddle right up to H4831SC in most rifles. You might try a different primer and even consider using a magnum primer as you are working up your load. Several sources of reloading information show up to about 62 grs. of H4831SC using 130 gr. bullets so if you are not showing any pressure signs I would increase at 1/2 grain increments and see if something really works.

I load for a buddy and am loading 59.0 grs. of H4831SC using Federal 215 match (magnum) primers and 130 gr. Partitions. His rifle has a 22" barrel and I 3020 fps with the Partition and 3040 fps with the Accubond.

Velocity: We used several 308 Remington Model 700 heavy barrel rifles and one 308 Savage rifle with a heavy barrel at work. Using the same lot of Match grade 168 gr. Sierra loads in these rifles the velocities were striking. I don't recall the exact numbers but between them it seems that I recall there being a difference of about 200 fps between the fastest rifle and the slowest using the exact same load in these 6 different rifles.

The shortest barrel was a 22" .308 Remington 700.
I believe 4 700's were 24" barrels.
The Savage had a 24" barrel or possibly even a 26" barrel.

From these rifles the slowest barrel/rifle was not the one with the 22" barrel, and the fastest over the chronograph was not the one with the 26" barrel. That in itself should prove that different rifles even if they are virtually identical and they shoot the exact same load, the velocities between each rifle can be pretty dramatic.