Underage applicants

[nitis]

Good job opened some eyes

Press release

Fish & Game Revisits Controlled Hunt Decision

Idaho Fish and Game has heard from many concerned hunters and parents about our decision this week to allow 9 through 11 year olds to remain in the recently completed controlled hunt drawing. In response, Fish and Game Director Virgil Moore has decided to give this a second look and will make an announcement early next week.

A new law which takes effect July 1, allows these young hunters to hunt big game, if they are 10 years old by the time they go hunting. Because the first drawing occurred before July 1, these young hunters were ineligible to apply. However, it appears many parents were not aware of this because more than 1,000 ineligible youngsters were entered into the drawing, mainly as part of group applications. Idaho Fish and Game decided to allow these young hunters to remain in the drawing due to administrative and customer service reasons, which include avoiding a delay in releasing the drawing results.

Fish and Game has received numerous phone calls and emails from hunters all over the state who feel that a different solution is necessary. With that in mind, Fish and Game is revisiting this situation to discuss whether there is a more suitable way to rectify this decision. The discussion will continue during the next several days until a final plan of action is reached.

Fish and Game apologizes to all hunters for the confusion, and appreciates the input we have received in recent days.
06-27-2014

 

[ivorytip]

i didnt have time to read thru all the post here but i have a jest on where it is going. my first thought was, wth.... but at same time these are kids and they will be of age come actual hunting season. think of how happy these kids are that drew! i remember the firsttime i drew a tag when i was 12 and i was on cloud freaking 9 and had that been taken from me that woulda sucked and it woulda killed the hunting enthusiasm that i have now. we want and need our kids to be avid outdoorsman and to learn the hunting side of life. if we lived in a state where there are no general tags then this would be a bigger prob with alot of people but this is idaho, one of the only states left that offer awsome general tags for both deer and elk in some pretty awesome country. those of us that didnt draw can still hunt and we have a ton of blm and state lands available for us to hunt on. not like we have to wait another year ya know? im happy for the little buggers that drew, good for them, lets not ruin the hunting experince for them.

 

[nitis]

Let them hunt general hunts then it clearly said in the regs they weren't supposed to apply

And they didn't pay $200 to apply.

I want kids to hunt too. But we have rules and regs for a reason

 

[ivorytip]

very true, will be interesting on how it plays out. nitis, wont you get money back being how you didnt draw?

 

[nitis]

No refunds have to buy a license to apply

 

[ivorytip]

oh thats right i forgot about that, yeah i can deff understand the frustration. what tag did you apply for?

 

[nitis]

Area 54. 10-15% chance each year. Dads been trying for 15 years

That hunt rarely gets the full. 10% non res allotment so definitely need ll the help we can get.

 

[ivorytip]

the bull archery tag? that would be sweet to draw. any hunt in 54 would be sweet.

 

[nitis]

Not elk Just deer

 

[Musket Man]

Are you a NR nitis? I was thinking you were a R for some reason. I apply in Idaho (although I chose not to this year because of another tag i drew) and I am really not bothered by this. If anything I blame DFG for not making the change effective before the 1st draw so there wouldnt have been this confusion in the first place.

 

[nitis]

Yes I am a non res. Idaho is always a last resort application because it's so expensive compared to anywhere else

Yes dfg is at fault for not having a way to automatically boot the applications at the time of application.
I'm thinking they slipped in via paper apps.

I also believe there were some apps that were genuinely entered not knowing the rule but for everyone of those there are two who were out to work the system

Anyone who read the regs or the press release about younger big game hunters should have seen where it clearly said don't apply if you are not 12. Because the law don't change until 7/1.

 

[ivorytip]

they deff goofed up. got back from a scouting trip and i am stoked for archery!

 

[tttoadman]

I am a very black and white person. I read regs front to back. If I am unclear on something, I will ask for clarification.

If they knew they had an issue, how hard would it have been to toss the ones that needed tossed and give it to the next random number on the draw. If they don't fix this, they are on the hook to compensate everyone in those drawings that didn't draw at least the full cost of app and license. They want to take the easy way out and ignore the impact to other applicants. If they know they are on the hook for costs, they would put more effort into making the correct decision.

I would rather show all the kids that incorrectly drew the importance of reading and understanding the regs. That is a much better lesson to learn than the "oh well??" they are learning now .

 

[nitis]

Here is the desicion made by the Director.


Commissioners,
I have decided to allow the 362 kids who drew 363 permits to keep them. I
appreciate all the advice I have heard but the narrative below explains my
thinking and will be the foundation for communication with Idaho hunters.

Below is my message to Communicate this that were are editing:

After full review of all information and facts relative to requests for
reconsideration of my June 25, 2014 decision to allow applications for youth
hunters of age 9 through 11 for deer, elk and antelope to be drawn contrary
to guidance given by the Department, I have decided to let the original
decision stand. The administrative hold on these tags is lifted and postal
notification of all successful applicants will commence.

My decision is based on several factors. First and foremost is that there
are 362 young hunters who drew tags that will have their first opportunity
for a hunt taken from them if we reverse the decision. While I may have been
shortsighted in the original decision, I stand by these kids, their parents
and their excitement, in allowing them to proceed with their first hunting
opportunity for big game using these permits. I simply can not bring myself
to disappoint them given the confusion about this issue. I sincerely believe
that parents and kids thought they were acting legitimately. I ask those
parents that did not submit application to place themselves in the shoes of
the parents whose kids drew these permits, through no fault of theirs. Two
wrongs do not make a right.

Second, the Department guidance for the application process was not clear
and consistent in its placement or wording in the 2014 Big Game season and
rule brochure. For example on page 11 of the brochure under What's New -
Hunting Age, there is reference that an age 10 hunter may hunt big game in
2014 as long as they are accompanied by an adult, but there no mention of
the guidance on control hunts that occurs later on page 108. The deer CH
section mentions the youth guidance for age 10 hunters relative to not being
eligible to apply for the youth CH, but the elk and antelope control hunt
section do not have this same information. No mention in the brochure is
made for 11 year old who are not 12 at the time of the hunt being
ineligible. This was done in a news release latter.

Third, there is no Commission rule or Idaho law that established the
Department guidance. It was and is an administrative decision. This is a one
time occurrence that will never happen again. As of today any youth with a
hunting license who will be age 10 at the time of the hunt can apply for a
control hunt. There was no legislative intent language in House Bill 399 to
delay the control hunt opportunity for 2014 big game seasons. That was our
interpretation as an agency that we did not adequately or clearly
communicate to all. Thus no violation of rule was conducted by those who
were not aware of the administrative guidance and submitted an application
and drew a permit. Many very knowledgeable hunters I talked to that were
supportive of this legislation submitted control hunt applications for these
tags based on their understanding of the new law.

Finally, for those who asked us to address their concern that the 1000 youth
applicants may have affected their drawing a permit odds in the various
hunts, we will add an additional 363 permits back into each of these deer,
elk and antelope hunts. A draw for those from the age 11 (who will be 12 at
the time of their hunt) and older hunters in the existing applicant pool
will take place for these added in tags to address their understandable
concern.

I recognize my decision does not address the many children and parents who
paid attention to the Department's guidance and did not apply. I cannot make
right the potential lost opportunity. I owe an apology to about 1,500 age 9,
10 and 11 youth (and their parents) for a decision that runs counter to
their abiding by our guidance. I deeply regret that I have disappointed you.
I will be sending a letter to each with a gift certificate of sufficient
value for the control hunt application fees for the second control hunt or
other tags and licenses. You are justified in being upset with me in this
decision and I accept that criticism.

I hope that we as Idaho hunters can get beyond this decision and back to
enjoying the many remaining opportunities for second control hunt draw for
leftover tags along with the numerous Idaho general hunts for deer and elk,
including some with specific youth opportunities. Further, I hope that
parents and grandparents remember their opportunity to designate a control
hunt tag to their eligible child or grandchild. Thank You for your
understanding.

 

[cowboy105]

Any word on how these tags or going to be distributed? IE: original draw apps next in line or 2nd draw? Hopefully original draw because it affected those who originally put in for those hunts

 

[nitis]

It's not worded very clearly but sort if sounds like next in line

 

[tttoadman]

They have turned this into a circus. Increasing the number of available tags now impacts everyone that drew a tag in addition to those that did not have a fair opportunity at drawing tags. They must feel it is better to impact as many as possible to spread around the displeasure a little thinner.

This is as simple as any contract bid /award situation. You toss out the disqualified applicants, and whoever is left gets an opportunity at a tag. It really is that simple.

I have to let this go. It doesn't directly affect me this year, but hurt feelings don't trump rules and regulations.

 

[OregonJim]

This is another case of making a mistake, worse by trying to do damage control.

A little proactivity could have prevented this in the first place.

I personally would have interpreted the change in the law to include those kids since they would be legal at the time of the hunt. Now thats just my opinion and it is a toss up. For Pete's sake don't interpret one way then apply the standard the opposite.

If there were no clear press release I would have put a kid in. If there was specific information that indicated that kids wouldn't be eligible until 2015 then F&G made the issue even worse.

I don't see the logic of interpreting it the other way THEN making it worse by allowing something in direct and complete conflict of your decision. Where is the QA of the process? Why were the applications not voided prior to the draw based on the interpretation?

 

[WapitiBob]

The computer should have tossed out the apps but obviously somebody changed the code to allow them.

 

[Musket Man]

Unless they were all paper apps (which I doubt) the system should not have allowed them to enter in the first place.