Too many elk in Murderers Creek and Northside units????

[Joe Hulburt]

I posted this on ifish but thought I should put it up on here too.

It looks to me like the board of the Grant County Wildlife Advisory Committee must be a little heavy with ranchers. I don't hunt elk in Murderers Creek much but from what I have seen there are a lot less than there used to be. Are either of these units even near the management objective?

I could be wrong but this seems like a pretty obvious case of a special interest group trying to screw up our hunting??? Anybody know anything about the "Grant County Wildlife Advisory Committee"?


Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
Contact: Ryan Torland (541) 575- 575-1167 or
Michelle Dennehy (503) 947-6022

August 22, 2011

Changes to Grant County elk hunting proposed


JOHN DAY, Ore.—The Grant County Wildlife Advisory Committee has recommended several changes to elk hunting that will increase hunting opportunity for the purpose of bringing elk populations back down to their target levels.

The changes would require Fish and Wildlife Commission approval and won’t take effect until the 2012 hunting season. The Commission will adopt 2012 big game regulations at their Oct. 7 meeting in Pendleton.

ODFW is asking for feedback on the proposed changes. People can send comments to [email protected] or mail them to ODFW, John Day Field Office, PO Box 9, John Day, Ore. 97845. Call Ryan Torland at ODFW’s Canyon City field office, tel. 541 575 1167, for more information.

The proposals follow. All tag numbers for 2012 are preliminary. Final tag numbers will not be set until June 2012 at the Fish and Wildlife Commission meeting.

Northside Unit
· Increase the 247 Northside Unit from 400 to 500 tags.

· Increase tags for 247A1 Northside Private Lands No. 1 and 247A2 Northside Private Lands No. 2 from 100 to 200 tags in each hunt.

· Change the hunt date on 247E East Northside Private to be Aug.1 to March 31 numbers (currently Aug. 1-Sept. 30).

· Change hunt dates on 247D2 W Grant Private No. 2 to be Oct. 1 to March 31 and increase tags to 500 (currently Oct. 1-Dec. 31, 126 tags).

· Delete 247D3 W Grant Private No. 3.


Murderers Creek
· Increase 246A West Murderers Creek tags from 350 to 450.

· Increase 246B East Murderers Creek tags from 250 to 300.

· Increase 246C Flagtail tags from 300 to 400.

· Change hunt dates on 246 Murderers Creek Private lands Plus to include the months of December and January.

· Increase the hunt area for the Flat Creek Youth 246T2 hunt to include all of the Phillip W. Schneider Area and increase tag to 30.

Youth Hunt change

· Delete 246T1 Grant Youth Hunt and replace with Desolation Youth Hunt (10 tags) and a new Northside/Murderers Creek youth hunt (50 tags)

The Grant County Wildlife Advisory Committee is a panel of local hunters, landowners, and interested persons that advise ODFW on wildlife issues. The committee is appointed by the Grant County Court.

ODFW has target population numbers, called management objectives, for elk populations. The goal in setting these objectives is an elk population that provides optimum levels of hunting, wildlife viewing and outdoor recreation while considering primary land uses, such as agriculture and ranching.

Oregon Elk Management Plan

###

Something seems really fishy about this proposal but I could be wrong......just throwing it out there in case people want to comment. Sounds like the ODFW wants to hear from hunters to me.....

 

[OR Archer]

I have to call BS on this one. Been in that area before and while there are a lot of elk compared to other areas over east I would have to dispute the claim that there is an over population. I think instead of just killing all the "excess" animals they should trap and relocate them to areas that are under objective numbers. Yes this would take some money but in the long run would benefit the elk population throughout the state.

 

[fishhog24]

I wonder if the 'over' population of elk are all on private ground?

 

[Joe Hulburt]

I wonder if the 'over' population of elk are all on private ground?

That and on the public ground that the ranchers graze all their cattle on probably. It seems hard for me to imagine there are too many elk in that country given the reports I hear and from what I have seen first hand. Looks a lot more like political pressure to rid the ranchers of any competition....

Don't get me wrong, if there is in fact a surplus of elk for the carrying capacity I think cow hunts are a great way to reduce the population! I am just wondering if that is at all the case.

 

[nv-hunter]

with the proposed hunts it sounds to me like they are targeting private ground in the witer when all the elk congrate and do damage to the rancher fields and fences. By the way cows and elk eat differant things.

 

[Jerry]

Sounds to me like the private land tags are asking for an increase because it is a great cash crop. Landowners are getting a ridiculous amount of money just for access. I may be all wrong but I've always said follow the money!

 

[fishhog24]

I agree that there is most likely special interests for the increase in tags. Would not doubt there is a lot of money for landowners to be had for a 'trespass fee' or whatever they like to call it. There is a problem with elk and deer leaving the National Forest to private lands for better feed. The lack of logging seems to have had a negative impact for our deer and elk. My opinion only, and we all know what those are like, hahaha.

 

[Leveller]

We do hunt E.Murderer's for elk, and I wouldn't exactly say it is over populated. Opening rifle day is good, but two shots later and they all head to the private land. The remainder of the 10 days feels like we are living in war-zone Iraq. Every time an elk rears it's head so do about 50 hunters all aiming at it. I too read this article when it came out and wasn't impressed that the solution was to simply release more tags. There are enough people contained on the pockets of public land as it is, and enough brass flying around too. Cow hunts are already done in this unit - I got mine on a dead run at 150yds. If this still isn't managing the population effectively then I'm with OR Archer - relocate them to areas where the population are barely thriving.

 

[Joe Hulburt]

That sure seems like a lot of cow tags to me for a small unit. And they are not private ground necessarily. A lot of the hunts in Murderers Creek are public land hunts and the cats are thick as fleas in there already. Seems like the hunter is getting the short end of the stick if these increases fly and they no doubt will given the little bit of resistance I am seeing to this proposal.

In that country cows and elk eat the same thing. At least they would if the cattle hadn't eaten it all before the elk drop down to find whats left....

What I find most amazing is that the actual Management Objective for these units is nowhere to be found. We have learned that there are too many elk according to the ranchers but we don't know how many there are or how many we want to have but we should comment on the proposal! Wow.

 

[fishhog24]

I am with you Joe, this will for sure be changes for next year. That just makes me have a little less faith in the ODFW, which is pretty low in the first place.

 

[Joe Hulburt]

I don't feel like the ODFW bio's have much to do with this proposal. It is the result of the way wildlife is managed in Oregon due to politics instead of science and I doubt the bio is happy about that. If the politicians hear from the ranchers there are too many elk the bios have little choice but to get rid of some elk. I could be wrong but that is my opinion anyhow. All the ODFW bios I know are great people who are doing the best they can.

 

[B_phipps26]

My family and I have been hunting the northside unit for years.
The past couple of years the deer and elk population has dropped. You just don't see the animals like you used to. If you do see elk they are on private. There has been times where we were elk hunting and someone was flying over dropping something loud or flying low to spook the elk on to private. It's hard enough to find the elk as it is! I would sure like to see these numbers of elk that they Speak of on public land! I think they should let the numbers increase to what they were, at least the hunters would have a better chance of harvesting their animal. The tag numbers for elk are fine the way they are I think.

 

[Miranda]

Hi Men and hopefully women. Being now that I live and hunt in this unit I don't understand the resentment. Frankly everyone whom has posted has a chip on there shoulder or just plan angry I don't get it. So why not listen to a ex school teacher, and yes I am hot, stacked bottom and top, more importantly a degree in animal husbandry, here comes the trivial responses: so please no BS messages back at me like that, I am just a hunter like you!

I look up , sideways, backwards, and its always the same...damn landowners. Do you guys(women wouldn't blame this on anyone) even consider how much it takes to buy 100 acres in a prime elk area vs. 12,000? So your argument now will be "no one ownes the elk" I couldn't agree with you more...no one owns anything.

But have you considered the ELK?

They are not owned either. They are free to go back in forth, but wait...since you drew a tag they are suppose to be there?

The elk go to private land cause we dont mess with them....unlike across our borders that an ATV is always echoing throughout the hillside. We border NF

So put up or shut up....get away from human activity=big bull, or just keep complaining on how everyone takes everything from you. You want a big bull? Go where the big bulls are...stop complaining!

p.s. I hunt meat so does my hubby

 

[nv-hunter]

Just my .02
I talked to a biologist last year when planning a hunt in Or and was told and agree with that current forestry practice don't agree with management of game animals on federal lands. No fires ( just under burns not ranging wild fires) no logging = reduced forage
A healthy forest is a black forest
And an old growth forest is a dying forest
No reason for elk to leave private lands when they are managed and federal lands are not

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

Welcome to EF, Miranda!

That was some entrance.

 

[Ricochet]

Since this is a thread about elk in the Northside unit I thought it would be a good time to ask about my up coming hunt. My dad and best friend and I drew tags for the East Northside any elk hunt. It is nine days and the east side of the unit has a lot of public land. I have talked to the biologist and numerous people that have been successful in that unit. I have a map and plan on a few scouting trips over there as well. I would appriciate any information you are willing to share. Thanks

Miranda you don't have to worry about any inappropriate comments on this forum. FYI I'm not stacked and I'm a husband!

 

[halfslam]

The Wildlife Advisory Committee has several ranchers on it and their big push now is to try and get more tags allocated to them because of elk damage. They want to be able to sell the tags. They have also come out and publicly stated that the bow hunters are disrupting elk behavior to the point that they are moving them onto private ground earlier than in past years. We do have more elk, as an example the John Day valley, that are showing up in the river bottoms and hay fields but it is a learned behavior.....when the higher elevation feed dries out time to feed in the lush lower elevation hay fields. Elk aren't dumb and I do think our Wildlife Advisory Committee has their own personel agenda. There is no way that we are over the MO numbers for elk in either of these units.

 

[ore hunter]

ive been over there and murderers creek certainly does not have a over abundance of elk,,,i think the habitat could certainly hold more elk than are there.