Tentative Permit Numbers Are Out

Stevo

Member
Mar 2, 2014
64
4
Texas
Thanks for the head's up. Looks like my elk tag chance may go from 2 tags to only 1 for non resident.
 

jimss

Member
Jun 10, 2012
141
2
Utah draw deadline bummer!

It stinks that the UT nonres application deadline is before the proposed numbers are available! From what I understand it is not possible to change unit choices after the deadline? It's a bummer to apply in a unit with only 1 tag when you have close to max pts to apply and only 1 nonres tag is issued in the random pool. The chance of drawing goes from almost 100% if they issued a tag in the bonus pt pool to almost 0% in the random pool in high demand units.

I wonder if enough nonres complained if they would change the system? They could keep the same deadline for applying but offer the option of changing unit choices after the application deadline once tag numbers are available? With so few tags issued to nonres it's pretty much a gamble knowing where to apply until after the deadline when it's too late to change!

Quite a few years ago I sent a complaint to the UDW....they didn't even post which units nonres would have tags! They highlighted the units with nonres tags the following year....so changes are possible!

I wonder if enough nonres complained if they would provide the opportunity to change unit numbers after the draw deadine? Does anyone have a Utah Division of Wildlife email address where concerned applicants can respond? I searched the UDW website and couldn't find one.
 

JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
3,872
690
Gypsum, Co
I doubt that they are going to change the system any time soon.

As for only one tag for a hunt this year, if you look at previous years you will find that most of them only have one or two tags for that same hunt available to the non resident. Also even if you have max points very seldom do you have a 100% chance at a tag. Even if there were 4 tags offered 2 go to the max point pool and 2 to the random draw. Then if 5 hunters applied with max points for those two tags your odds go down.

If you are really concerned about how and when the tag allocations are done then I suggest that you make some plans to show up to a RAC meeting. There are a number of them listed coming up in the next few weeks. You can also email a wildlife board member about your concerns.
 
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JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
3,872
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Gypsum, Co
I should also say that if you want to you can show up at the Wildlife Board meeting on May 2 and submit a question card and then get up to the mike and ask your questions.

There is time dedicated at each meeting for this type of thing.
 

jimss

Member
Jun 10, 2012
141
2
With the current application deadline it is totally a gamble from one year to the next knowing whether there will be 1 bonus pt pool nonres tag for units. These don't stay consistent from year to year and there are often new hunts added for nonres that nonres have no clue whether there will be 1 bonus pt pool tag.

Also, with the current system there is no telling whether some nonres that are close to UDW personnel may have inside advantages over other applicants that aren't aware which units will have bonus pt tags available. I would think hunters applying for tags ought to know up front what exactly they are applying for and if they have a good chance to draw in the bonus pt pool! It is definitely a faulty system as it stands!

I guess I can be more specific. I currently have 22 UT nonres bison pts. There are literally hundreds of applications in the random pool for 1 tag...with draw odds close to 0! There are a number of bison hunts that I have a very good chance to draw if they offer a random tag. With the current system it is IMPOSSIBLE to know if a bison hunt will have a bonus pt tag. These have changed from 1 year to the next!

As I mentioned in my previous post it would benefit a lot of nonres with high pref pts if Utah offered an extended period after the nonres application deadline when tag allocations are known so hunters could potentially switch units to those where they have the chance to draw a bonus pt tag...instead of applying and hoping for the best! It makes a heck of a lot of sense to me!

Unfortunately I live around 600 miles and super busy right now to voice something at a meeting. JimP, it sounds like you know the Utah system well. If you can provide an email address on this post for someone that may be willing to listen at the UDW that would be great! I'm sure a lot of nonres with high bonus pts would thank you!
 
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JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
3,872
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Gypsum, Co
They dropped the bison herd down on the Henry Mountains by quite a bit. The opened up a new hunt last season after the draw was done, it was in January with only a couple of bull tags with most being cow tags. They are worried about the drought conditions and want the herd down to around 250 animals instead of over 300 where they have been. So don't expect any increases in either sex tag, but they may increase the cow tags in the future.

The better draw this year is the Book Cliffs for bison. And if you have horses the Roadless area, I didn't look to see if it had a non resident tag this year or not.

But with the number of non resident applicants with 20+ points it is just going to be a crap shoot. Right now there are 14 non residents with 22 points 2 with 23 and 1 with 24. And depending on where they put in it might not change very much.
 

jimss

Member
Jun 10, 2012
141
2
JimP, as you mentioned in your post Utah varies nonres bonus pt tags and new seasons from 1 year to the next. Don't you think it makes sense for them to allow nonres to know exactly which units would have a bonus pt pool tag prior to a deadline? It would be worth it to me if I had to pay an additional fee to adjust units after the application deadline. Wyoming allows hunters to do this and it makes a heck of a lot of sense!

It's not just the bison draw...it's every draw available! It's a faulty system if those that apply for tags have no idea if there will be a bonus pt tag available until after the application deadline when they can't make any changes to their application! A lot of nonres get screwed each year because of this!

It would be great if someone "in the know" would provide a Utah email address to send comments!
 

JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
3,872
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Gypsum, Co
The only state that I know that doesn't do it that way is Wyoming.

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that if I want to hunt a bison I'll head to the Dakota's or up to Montana and do a ranch hunt. While the Utah bison hunts can be fun they can also be the hardest hunt that you ever go on. I have been on a number of them and you never know just how it is going to turn out. It isn't a 100% guarantee hunt.

The same can be said for moose, mountain goats, and sheep. Go somewhere that you can buy the tag over the counter and enjoy the hunt, the odds of drawing a lot of those type of tags are out there.
 

Silentstalker

Active Member
Oct 26, 2013
191
3
Utah
If you want to send emails to those who make these type of changes, Go to this link:

https://wildlife.utah.gov/board-rac.html

Select Wildlife Board members and it will give you their contact information. Then select RAC members. Same deal. The 5 regional RAC present to the WB who make the final decisions.

I don?t think it will do much good but it is worth a try.
 

jimss

Member
Jun 10, 2012
141
2
SilentStalker, Thanks for the link! That's exactly what I was looking for! It's definitely worth a try! If enough concerned nonres send emails hopefully it will get their attention. It wouldn't take much to do a small tweak to the current system and nonres would benefit greatly!

If you have been waiting years to draw nonres tags in Utah for all species and want a better chance to draw this would be a great opportunity to actually know exactly what units/seasons offer 1 nonres bonus pt tag each year. As it currently stands nonres applicants have no clue! The application deadline could remain as it is but this would allow applicants the opportunity to change unit/season choices after proposed tag allotments are available (say April 15). Just a small tweak and fault in the current system!
 

JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
3,872
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Gypsum, Co
One problem with that idea is that all the other non residents that put in will jump from the 1 tag units to the other units with you. Lowering your chance at a tag.
 

jimss

Member
Jun 10, 2012
141
2
JimP, A couple more applicants with high pts is a lot better draw odds than a snowball's chance in h$ll of drawing a random tag!
 

JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
3,872
690
Gypsum, Co
Every year a few of those snowballs drop into hell and put out that fire and draw the most coveted tags.