SE Montana Rut/Nov weather

[Musket Man]

before MT did away with the outfitter tags and raised the prices drawing odds for the deer/elk combo were about every other year and deer only was about 5/1 odds. Since then there have been deer/elk combos leftover every year. The first year they all sold in a few days. since then there have been more leftover every year and it has taken longer to sell them out. I think for deer only all the tags were given out in the draw the first year or 2 but since then they have had letfover tags too. Idaho used to sell out all their general deer and elk tags within a month, they raised their price nearly 2x (Idaho has lost money in tag sales ever since this even with the higher price)and have had leftover tags ever since and now idaho general tags are considered 'OTC' because anymore you can buy a tag on the season opener and go hunting. Oregon did something similar a year before Idaho with similar results. ID and MT have been hit hard by wolves, nearly doubled their NR prices, and seen tag demand plummet. Hopefully this is giving them an idea of what nonresidents are willing to pay for what they have to offer.

 

[Musket Man]

I picked up a leftover deer combo two years ago. I did not apply during the draw. I believe there were a few hundred left over. This would have been the 2012 season.

Its really hard to believe MT can not provide stats on this!

 

[Breshears]

You guys are on the right track as usual! Draw odds have been very high, and last year as you have found was 100% it was actually the first time in the history of the tag being sold (since the state went to the draw system for nonresidents) according to FWP. Traditionally the tag for deer only was roughly 40% with a few 60% success years. I hunt eastern MT nearly every year from the 15th-24th ish and the weather is usually very nice to start with and somewhere along the line goes to crap and gets super cold (which is a good thing in my opinion). The past two seasons I went (2011 and 2012) it dropped down to -10 on or around the 21st of November. The bucks will definitely be chasing does, especially if you get a cold snap. This is one of my favorite hunts, and if you have some decent private ground to hunt it should be all the better! One thing to keep in mind is this: if you know you are only going to hunt deer then apply for the deer only, but if you might try for elk on a separate or the same trip you will want the combo. I know this sounds obvious but you cannot change your mind after the fact and will end up missing out or spending a ton of money on the additional tag. My buddy had a client do that last year, he only purchased the elk tag and ended up tagging out early, and couldn't hunt deer. Food for thought! Good luck, it has the makings for a sweet hunt.

 

[Musket Man]

You guys are on the right track as usual! Draw odds have been very high, and last year as you have found was 100% it was actually the first time in the history of the tag being sold (since the state went to the draw system for nonresidents) according to FWP. Traditionally the tag for deer only was roughly 40% with a few 60% success years. I hunt eastern MT nearly every year from the 15th-24th ish and the weather is usually very nice to start with and somewhere along the line goes to crap and gets super cold (which is a good thing in my opinion). The past two seasons I went (2011 and 2012) it dropped down to -10 on or around the 21st of November. The bucks will definitely be chasing does, especially if you get a cold snap. This is one of my favorite hunts, and if you have some decent private ground to hunt it should be all the better! One thing to keep in mind is this: if you know you are only going to hunt deer then apply for the deer only, but if you might try for elk on a separate or the same trip you will want the combo. I know this sounds obvious but you cannot change your mind after the fact and will end up missing out or spending a ton of money on the additional tag. My buddy had a client do that last year, he only purchased the elk tag and ended up tagging out early, and couldn't hunt deer. Food for thought! Good luck, it has the makings for a sweet hunt.

Do you know of anywhere you can actually look up any of the general draw stats? I quit hunting MT when they raised the prices, I would love to hunt eastern MT again but its just to much money to me rightnow. Anyways i was trying to help these guys with figuring out the draw odds. I emailed FPW and all they could tell me was, the odds for the deer only combo was 100% last year, they are not on their web site anywhere, and they could not break down the drawing as to tag quota, applicants, leftover tags, ect, and they declined to give me any explanation as to why these stats are not available. There has got to be some where you can see these stats. I understand it was 100% last year but weather there was 1 tag or 1/2 the tags leftover last year could make a big difference to a guy applying that wants to be sure to draw a tag and is trying to decide weather to put in for a deer only tag or the deer/elk combo that he definately would draw.

 

[AT Hiker]

Thanks to all again! Right now I believe we are going to apply for the general deer tag, and if we do not draw I am going to purchase the deer/elk combo ASAP. If that doesnt work, then I will consider it a sign for us not to go this year.

I agree Musket Man, it would make things a lot easier if they posted more stats online and would likely attract a few more hunters (hence make more $$).

The main reason we are going to MT is; A. we have a private ranch access B. the terrain is better for my grandfather to hunt versus where I hunt in WY C. the Nov dates fit our schedule

 

[NDHunter]

It used to be you had to draw a general license to apply for a LE tag or get a point but they changed it recently so you can get a point without buying a general license. The way I understood what I ran across when I was looking for the drawing odds today was you can buy a point similar to the WY system.

I THINK that you can only do the "points only" for the actual general tag. If you want to accumulate points for limited entry units, I'm pretty sure that you still have to apply for the general tag. The way I understand it is that they have a separate point system for both the general tag and the limited entry tags. Kind of similar to how Utah does it. Good thing it isn't complicated or anything......

 

[PlainsHunter]

I THINK that you can only do the "points only" for the actual general tag. If you want to accumulate points for limited entry units, I'm pretty sure that you still have to apply for the general tag. The way I understand it is that they have a separate point system for both the general tag and the limited entry tags. Kind of similar to how Utah does it. Good thing it isn't complicated or anything......

You can buy a point for the general deer combo. In 2012 I bought one for my wife- then applied for the general deer combo with the point in 2013. In hindsight it wasn't necessary as there were leftovers but I didn't know that the extra tags would be something that would happen every year. Ditto on the limited entry tags. This is the way I read the regs as well.

 

[Musket Man]

You guys are right. I was wrong about the LE points. I know they have made some changes to the LE system the last few years and what I thinking about is I think you could get a LE point if you were in the general draw and didnt draw? I guess I missed that what I was reading on their site was for points only for general tags. I havent kept up on MT real well the last few years. Sorry for the false info guys.

 

[PlainsHunter]

I don't understand why they don't publish the deer combo drawing odds. Seems strange to me.

 

[NDHunter]

I don't understand why they don't publish the deer combo drawing odds. Seems strange to me.

Yea I don't know either. Although I am about 100% sure that they used to publish it. That was probably 6 or 7 years ago though. The LE unit draw odds are published but I guess not the general tags anymore. Maybe they figure since their are leftover tags it isn't worth publishing???? I don't know....

 

[Musket Man]

I don't understand why they don't publish the deer combo drawing odds. Seems strange to me.

Me either and they completely avoided the question in my emails with them.

 

[Breshears]

Do you know of anywhere you can actually look up any of the general draw stats? I quit hunting MT when they raised the prices, I would love to hunt eastern MT again but its just to much money to me rightnow. Anyways i was trying to help these guys with figuring out the draw odds. I emailed FPW and all they could tell me was, the odds for the deer only combo was 100% last year, they are not on their web site anywhere, and they could not break down the drawing as to tag quota, applicants, leftover tags, ect, and they declined to give me any explanation as to why these stats are not available. There has got to be some where you can see these stats. I understand it was 100% last year but weather there was 1 tag or 1/2 the tags leftover last year could make a big difference to a guy applying that wants to be sure to draw a tag and is trying to decide weather to put in for a deer only tag or the deer/elk combo that he definitely would draw.

Musket, MT FWP doesn't post them online as you figured out, however, I have the stats from my contact at FWP. I am not sure why they don't give them out, they give me them every year for my articles, if you want I can email them to you. I assume they don't post them because the overall demand doesn't justify it, and with the recent surplus license issues I would guess they don't want to show their hand for fear of more pressure to reduce license fees from the general public. Last year the quota for general deer combos was 7,781 and their were only 6,186 first choice applicants leaving 1,595 surplus licenses. I don't have all of the years, but I am sure I can get previous years if you guys want them. I believe that 2012 had roughly 85% draw odds for general deer combos. I will double check.

 

[Musket Man]

Musket, MT FWP doesn't post them online as you figured out, however, I have the stats from my contact at FWP. I am not sure why they don't give them out, they give me them every year for my articles, if you want I can email them to you. I assume they don't post them because the overall demand doesn't justify it, and with the recent surplus license issues I would guess they don't want to show their hand for fear of more pressure to reduce license fees from the general public. Last year the quota for general deer combos was 7,781 and their were only 6,186 first choice applicants leaving 1,595 surplus licenses. I don't have all of the years, but I am sure I can get previous years if you guys want them. I believe that 2012 had roughly 85% draw odds for general deer combos. I will double check.

Thanks for the info! I believe what you posted is what we were looking for. I was thinking maybe they werent posting the odds because they are worried about people seeing them and not applying or applying for the deer/elk combo when they just want to hunt deer thinking they have a better chance at drawing. What ever their reason is I believe they should post them and hunters applying for tags have a right to know what the odds have been the last few years. I asked FWP why they were not available in their web site and why they could not break down the general draws for me and they completely avoided the question.

I know there have been some changes to the LE draws in the last few years. Can you please clarify the current regs on that and if you still have to buy a general license to apply for points for LE hunts? Thanks!

 

[Montana]

Well I was all prepared to give advise but everyone here has covered it all and is spot on...

Nice work everyone

 

[hvfd21walker]

Yes, it is such a great forum. People are so willing and generous to help.


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[AT Hiker]

Well I was all prepared to give advise but everyone here has covered it all and is spot on...

Nice work everyone

Everyone did do a great job! However, if you could choose anytime in Nov when would you go?

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

Everyone did do a great job! However, if you could choose anytime in Nov when would you go?

I would go the third week.

 

[Breshears]

It used to be you had to draw a general license to apply for a LE tag or get a point but they changed it recently so you can get a point without buying a general license. The way I understood what I ran across when I was looking for the drawing odds today was you can buy a point similar to the WY system. Honestly I would stay away from MT all together unless you are going to hunt in the general hunts. Some LE tags can be good but the drawing odds are generally very low and IMO between the wolves, deer and antelope being way down in alot of eastern MT and the odds of drawing a LE tag being so low, you would be alot better off investing your time and money in other states.

Musket,

I may be wrong but I believe the only points you can buy for deer or elk is for the general nonresident licenses. Any LE or "Special Draw" as MT likes to call it, has to be applied for at the same time you apply for the combo license. And IF you do not draw the combo license (meaning you are unsuccessful) then you will still get a point towards your LE hunt choice. Does that make sense? I won't go to the bank on it, but I am pretty sure this is how MT works. I will double check my notes and let you guys know for sure tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Musket Man]

Musket,

I may be wrong but I believe the only points you can buy for deer or elk is for the general nonresident licenses. Any LE or "Special Draw" as MT likes to call it, has to be applied for at the same time you apply for the combo license. And IF you do not draw the combo license (meaning you are unsuccessful) then you will still get a point towards your LE hunt choice. Does that make sense? I won't go to the bank on it, but I am pretty sure this is how MT works. I will double check my notes and let you guys know for sure tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks! I was looking on the MT site and saw where you can buy a point and I took it to mean it was for LE points too when it was only for the general draws and I think that is what started the confusion. I believe your info is correct. I think the biggest question and where this part of the discussion started is is there a way for a nonresident to get LE points without having to pay for a general combo license?

 

[kentuckyhunter]

Exactly musket

Is there a way for a nonresident to get limited entry points without buying a general combo license?


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