Resident Prefernce Points

[WapitiBob]

Shoot; I'm not lucky, just old and experienced enough to see what goes on in other states. PP systems don't do a darn thing for someone who starts 10 years after the system is implemented. There will be hunts in WY ten years from now that will be unreachable for a person starting out. That's a fact played out in every PP state in the West.

Unfortunately there are no perfect systems but from what my experience has been, a bonus point system coupled with a "tiered" wait period would be the best solution. Those that draw need to sit on the side and wait for others, BUT with so many hunt options available that guy still needs to be able to hunt, just not the identical hunt he already drew.

It seems to me, with so much on the line, a system could be designed that addresses the failures of those systems currently in use. Unfortunately, Hicks doesn't have the vision to see that. If all Wyoming residents are concerned with is getting that tag for today's crop of hunters, go the Preference Point route. But, as I mentioned above, down the road there will be a new crew looking to change what you did to them.

On the flip side, there are hunts that a point system can never fix as you're seeing with Sheep. If you give out 10 tags and 1,000 apply the first year, that max point pool will be dead before it's cleaned out. Nothing will fix it short of more tags or fewer applicants. Add to that, the perception hunters have that they're entitled to hunt every species in their state. Those types don't seem the grasp the reality that if everyone had that entitlement there wouldn't be any game to hunt.

There is no easy answer and some time to look at and design other options is what's needed, not just throwing a PP system against the wall to see if it sticks.

 

[libidilatimmy]

I've often wondered if a PP system where the applicant was only issued points for the one particular area applied for would have any merit. If an applicant had to choose a single area to accumulate points in and not be able to "jump" areas and flood one particular up and coming area with applicants it could alleviate some of the stress put on areas with small tag quotas. In my mind, this could be a way of "localizing" a PP system. Just some food for thought...

 

[Triple BB]

Guy some of your concerns will be addressed if they decrease the percentage of tags going to non resi's for moose & sheep. As for $500 for a license, what about the kids. I put my daughter in for Moose the last two years with the hope she'll draw a tag sometime in the next 40 years. If the cost went to a $1000 I'd keep putting her in, but what about the folks who can't afford $500. How many kids won't be applying and may never apply because by the time they're old enough to afford it, they'll be so far behind they'll never draw? Short sighted on your part. Also, I'll disagree with you about choosing between limited quota and general season deer. A lot of folks, myself included put some of the blame on the Eastman's and others like Carter's for having over publicized area's G & H in the past. Now you're trying to come up with a solution to fix the problem? No offense, just calling it the way I see it...

 

[kiddwinner]

$500 a tag is a great idea, you can purchase just points for $11 each year. If you really want to hunt moose or sheep and know you have enough points to draw a tag, you will find a way to get $500 to do it. Im really glad they require the entire amount for buffalo this year, it weeds a lot of the people out that aren't so serious. I know a lot of people who apply and never go once even with a great tag, last year my buddy put his wife in for hard to draw deer and elk (<20%) she drew them both and went one day for elk and never went once for deer... the fee increase would definitely limit this for all species.

 

[Guy]

Triple BB,

The kids can still apply for youth points in WY for sheep and moose at a very reasonable rate. But in my opinion, if they want to actually hunt a sheep or moose, it would cost $500. A sheep or a Shiras' moose is well worth more than $500 in this day and age. Statistically speaking, they are probably already so far behind the curve with WY trophy species that they may never draw already. That ship has already sailed.

I was lucky enough to be born and raised right on the line between the G and H region. Purely from a mathematical standpoint, the hunting pressure in those areas from nonresident hunters has actually gone down, way down over the past 20 years. When I was a kid back int he 80s there was well over 2,500 nonresident tags in both regions for deer, now there is about 800. So the non-resident hunting pressure has actually been significantly reduced over the last few decades in G and H.

I guess, I don't really understand what exactly Carter's and I ruined in those regions. The hunting pressure, the draw odds, or the trophy potential?

G-

 

[HayHay98]

Guy and all,

You all have brought up some really, really good points and some great ideas. I think we're going to see if the theory of raising prices helps with odds based on the new Bison requirement going into effect this year. My guess is that this will cut applicants in half or more. I for one am in favor of these increases but I think there should be some youth prices at a more reasonable fee. We need kids hunting regardless of species.

I very much agree with the fact that almost every area for every species in WY has seen HUGE increases in pressure, especially areas with large amounts of public land. I think the overall quality of hunting in WY has dropped significantly in the past 10 years, due both to fewer animals and more hunters. Now, with that said, I know for a fact that WY has some of the best hunting to be found anywhere in the lower 48. As with all states and situations, we as hunters have to continue working together with our dollars to help fund conservation efforts to help put more animals in the hills. This ensures our hunting heritage and at the end of the day puts more tags in all of our pockets.

On another note very similar in topic, several wardens, biologists, and landowners have been meeting periodically discussing Type 9 seasons in a host of elk and deer areas in central WY. I won't be surprised if we start seeing more Type 9 permits and a shorter "general archery" type season in limited quota elk and deer areas, ie 9/1-9/15 type 9 only, 9/16-9/30, all hunters with archery tag.

Great discussion everyone, will be interesting to see what comes of this but during a Legislative Budget Session, I won't hold my breath.

 

[WapitiBob]

Having a point system for sheep was a foolish move to begin with. The one thing oregon did right was a random draw and once in a lifetime when drawn.

 

[Elkoholic307]

I think, if WY does go to a point system for residents, they should just keep it simple like NV does, and just square your points so if you have three points your name goes into the draw nine times. Pretty simple and straight forward. Then the guys who have no points don't get totally screwed.

Exactly! That's what I've been saying all along. In my opinion, Nevada has the best draw system out there.

 

[canvsbk]

As a nonresident I don't really have a dog in this but even though I do buy them I'm no fan of points. When you do use the ones you have you're done and unable to catch up. Feels like a one shot deal.
There have been some interesting ideas thrown out here, if it goes that way I would hope all involved think it through.

 

[Musket Man]

Exactly! That's what I've been saying all along. In my opinion, Nevada has the best draw system out there.

Have you ever applied in Nevada? Im not saying I dont like their system. I like that it gives everyone some chance to draw, but I cant draw a tag there to save my life. Even tried to burn my antelope points lastyear on an easier to draw unit that everyone with my points easily drew the year before and didnt even draw that. I think it would help the drawing odds alot if they drew everyones first choice first before considering other choices. I also dont like that points apply to everything including the second draw for leftover tags. As a NR I like Wyomings NR draw system better then any other states I apply in.

 

[In God We Trust]

I agree with Guy on the resident PP system. It has become a disaster here in Colorado. If I want to draw a top deer or elk unit I need at least 20 points and those units are creeping up .5 to 1 point per year so a guy might as well give up on that now. I think Wyoming would benefit from making residents pick either a general season or a draw unit for deer. If you want quality deer hunts you cant have your cake and eat it too. Look at how far Colorado has come since they instituted the unit system instead of a general tags for mule deer. The quality and quantity of bucks in Colorado has drastically improved in the last 12 years. I also don't think you can blame the Eastman's or anyone else for that matter because an area becomes popular and more sought after. With forum's like this as well as T.V shows, magazines, the B&C Club record books, and the overall popularity of trophy hunting growing people finding out about the top producing areas in each state was inevitable.

 

[WY ME]

I'm agreement with Guy...almost. I know the sheep thing is a mess but in the case of moose I think the point system is working really well. I have been the recipient of 2 moose tags. The first was through the random draw in '93. 2 years later they went to the point system and I was not grandfathered in. I waited my 5 years and then started applying. I even forgot to put in for my tag one year so I was now 3 years behind everyone. Well, after diligently applying for many years I drew my second tag in 2008 because I had enough points for my area which I'll add was a very good area (I got a Booner). Now the 5 year waiting period is up and I can once again start applying for moose and I do expect to get drawn one more time (albeit I'll be kind of old when I do).

I also drew a sheep tag through the random draw in '94. Same story as moose except I'm 4 years behind max points. I could be seventy when I get another tag but I plan on getting one.

Like Guy, I would hate to see deer and elk got to a preference point system but maybe it would work for antelope since all the tags are limited quota anyways and I don't think people get quite so devoted to drawing a specific area when it comes to antelope tags like they do for elk.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Granby guy]

You guys have made some very valid points but let me start by saying that instituting preference points is opening a can of worms that will likely never be able to be closed. Being from colorado I know exactly how preference points can create a total disaster. 20 years ago my dad and I planned on accumulating enough points to hunt in the NW corner when it only took 7 points. When we reached 9 points the points required had climbed to 15 so we decided to burn our points on a RWF hunt and gave up on the pipe dream of hunting in the NW corner. My kids are 3 and 7 and at the rate of increase in the PP system they would be in their 50's before ever having the possible opportunity to hunt there.

I don't think there is a unit in colorado or anywhere else for that matter that is worth waiting that long to hunt. I would suggest making people choose between having a license or gaining a point. If you draw a license then you can't get a point. I for one would choose a license over a point anyday. I realize that this effects budget gains made from such things as second choice licenses but I'm not sure if there is really an answer to the problem, but I do know that once it is instituted how can it ever be modified in a way that doesn't rip the carpet out from under the feet of people who have put in their time.

 

[Fink]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I just can't understand how a resident of Wyoming could ever want any type of preference/bonus point system. I hate to offend anyone, but the desire for any system other than a pure random draw is nothing but selfish and self serving.
Screw the little guy that was a year to young to get in on the ground floor, he doesn't deserve a chance at the best unit in the state.

The residents in WY have it so good, it's almost disgusting. Half the state is a general elk tag, you have a pile of general deer units, you can apply for a limited entry unit, and if you don't draw, can go hunt some of the best public ground in the country, ON AN OTC TAG!

Y'all are nuts for wanting to change that, just so maybe you can draw a desert unit elk tag in the next 20 years.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Fink---That's what I keep telling all the residents on another website that are trying to push one through!!!

 

[ScottR]

Well said Fink.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[birdhunter]

No way should there be a point system. Everyone wants it now, but they also wanted it for trophy species. Now they don't want it. Talked to a biologist here and he said there would be a very high percentage of elk areas that would be a once in a lifetime draw like area 1 moose. When it gets to that point, and it would quickly, everyone would be complaining about the point system. Everyone has the same chance as everyone else right now. I find that to be the fairest way there is. I have drawn a bull tag the last 2 out of 3 years. I don't plan on drawing another for a while. My luck has to be run out.

 

[HiMtnHnter]

No way should there be a point system. Everyone wants it now, but they also wanted it for trophy species. Now they don't want it. Talked to a biologist here and he said there would be a very high percentage of elk areas that would be a once in a lifetime draw like area 1 moose. When it gets to that point, and it would quickly, everyone would be complaining about the point system. Everyone has the same chance as everyone else right now. I find that to be the fairest way there is. I have drawn a bull tag the last 2 out of 3 years. I don't plan on drawing another for a while. My luck has to be run out.

I agree for the most part. Whether it's straight random draw like now or some kind of preference point or bonus point system, your still going to be waiting for a tag for long periods if you want to hunt a popular area. Right now there are only a few limited quota areas to choose from, which doesn't give us much choice (or chance) if that's the route you want to take. The fact is that general areas are our bread and butter since they offer the most opportunity and right now they're not doing all that well. The general area seasons are being shortened and timed at very difficult times of the fall to counter-act too much harvest. I don't think the discussion can be had without mentioning ways to improve general areas. I'm not saying totally limiting those areas is the way to go, either . . . but you can only shorten the seasons and toy with times of the year before something has to give.

 

[Musket Man]

In harder to draw areas points work fairly well for everyone that gets in the first year. After that with point creep its hard or impossible to ever ketch up. Areas that take 4-5 points and dont creep it seems to work ok but in a random draw you would probably draw them every 4-5 years anyways. I would rather have a random draw any day.

 

[HayHay98]

FYI, this bill passed the Senate 25-5 and is now in committee in the House.