Putting in Points for Sheep and Goat Were Should I put in ?

[NDHunter]

Dang Tim, we just can't come to an agreement can we!!! Haha.

One thing I'll agree 100% on is going for an unpopular unit. If I was going to keep applying, I think I'd just apply for the units in a region that have the worst units but the best draw odds. If anybody has less than 5 points and applies for 680, I honestly believe the odds have got to be at least 1 in 5,000 of drawing, probably more like 1 in 10,000 or even worse. Yes, "somebody has to draw" but the odds are so steep that I think people are nuts going for those tags. I would still rather buy tickets on raffle tags than apply for the big 3 in MT.

 

[Tim McCoy]

Dang Tim, we just can't come to an agreement can we!!! Haha.

One thing I'll agree 100% on is going for an unpopular unit. If I was going to keep applying, I think I'd just apply for the units in a region that have the worst units but the best draw odds. If anybody has less than 5 points and applies for 680, I honestly believe the odds have got to be at least 1 in 5,000 of drawing, probably more like 1 in 10,000 or even worse. Yes, "somebody has to draw" but the odds are so steep that I think people are nuts going for those tags. I would still rather buy tickets on raffle tags than apply
for the big 3 in MT.

Actually I think we do agree. I just come at it from the other side of the glass of water which happens to be half full or half empty. Simply trying to show a rational way, I think, to view MT, but I could be all wet. Their $750 tag remains a deal. No real hard and fast rules, just preferences to a degree. Quick, if lotteries are a tax on foolishness, what are MT sheep odds?

Your odds guess could be low, for the popular units. Not inclined to try the math. Were I new to points, I'd probably avoid MT, unless I was a resident, wanted to go unlimited, bow or chase "bad" units, or had a large budget to apply all over. MT is a victim of lots of press about sheep. It has a couple magnet units, but has some outstanding sheep hunting in "bad" units. If I harvest a sheep in WY this year, and like how it eats, I'll probably burn points in every state I can for ewes...

 

[NDHunter]

Were I new to points, I'd probably avoid MT, unless I was a resident, wanted to go unlimited, bow or chase "bad" units, or had a large budget to apply all over.

HEY, we agree!!!! Woohoo!

 

[Tim McCoy]

HEY, we agree!!!! Woohoo!

Yes sir, as I suspected, saying the same general thing in different ways. Now back to reviewing my favorite probability and statistics conundrum, aka the draws... I did get a nice letter from OR one time on their raffle hunt, yes, I was the second place loser, they told me if the other two bailed I had the hunt. Talk about kissing your sister. Good luck!

 

[matt1glenn]

Thanks guys !

What about AZ sheep ? and maybe az elk to build points ? if already paying for the liz ,but I don't know sounds like they are cutting that states % for NR too

 

[Tim McCoy]

Thanks guys !

What about AZ sheep ? and maybe az elk to build points ? if already paying for the liz ,but I don't know sounds like they are cutting that states % for NR too

I might look closely at NV, were I looking for a DBS as my primary target. Check, but more tags and great elk too, and you can try for calif BH tag as well is a separate draw. If you were also after a Coues or Jav., probably AZ, again assuming you want a shot at DBS, long shot, but a shot. Who knows what rule changes we'll see in future years, you pay the coin and hope.

 

[Zim]

"WY uses preference points for sheep, if there is no change, 150 years to draw may be low... Points in WY for sheep are $100 a year."

I bailed on WY sheep when they went to $100. But you can stick with it. When they go to 10% nonresident it will take 500 years to draw. But just keep a healthy diet and stay fit. You'll make it. I took my money elsewhere.

Up near 20 points now and will continue in NV, CO & AZ. But that is all. If I never draw I never draw. I've had a lot of other great hunts.

 

[MWScott72]

If you didn't start building points years ago, most of these western hunts for moose, sheep, goats will just be a dream. Odds are so bad, and you don't know what the game agencies will do down the road (cut tags, increase tags, increase fees, cap non-residents, etc.) or what animal populations will be. For those reasons, I'd just save the money you'll dole out for points and put it into an account for an AK or Canada hunt. At least you're basically guaranteed a tag there once the money is saved up!

 

[woodtick]

If you didn't start building points years ago, most of these western hunts for moose, sheep, goats will just be a dream. Odds are so bad, and you don't know what the game agencies will do down the road (cut tags, increase tags, increase fees, cap non-residents, etc.) or what animal populations will be. For those reasons, I'd just save the money you'll dole out for points and put it into an account for an AK or Canada hunt. At least you're basically guaranteed a tag there once the money is saved up!

I couldn't agree more!! 40 years at $100 is a hell of a down payment on a AK or Canadian trip and were just talking one state!!

 

[NDHunter]

I wonder how many people under 40 or 30 have points? I just turned 31and have 5 points for moose and sheep. I feel like there's a good chance I'll draw in WY even if they cut the tag quotas. What do you think Zim? Think there are that many people younger than me with more points? I won't be trying to draw a primo tag either.

 

[woodtick]

I wonder how many people under 40 or 30 have points? I just turned 31and have 5 points for moose and sheep. I feel like there's a good chance I'll draw in WY even if they cut the tag quotas. What do you think Zim? Think there are that many people younger than me with more points? I won't be trying to draw a primo tag either.

It'd probably blow your mind how many people under 40 or even 30 that have a grundle of points. I just turned 30 and I have 12 points for each and I know of several local kids my age that have just that many or more! And we're talking a small town.

 

[buckbull]

It'd probably blow your mind how many people under 40 or even 30 that have a grundle of points. I just turned 30 and I have 12 points for each and I know of several local kids my age that have just that many or more! And we're talking a small town.

And I think that's the only scenario that makes sense, start buying points as soon as you are eligible to do so. So if you are 20 when you start buying points and it takes 30 years to draw the tag, at 50 years old assuming you have taken care of yourself you should still be able to meet the physical demands of a sheep hunt. If you wait until you are 30, you may not be able to hunt sheep until your 60. As one ages, your ability to meet the challenge decreases with each passing year. Getting a sheep tag in your late sixties or seventies just isn't a good recipe for success. I know there are guys that old that have done it; its the exception, not the rule.

 

[NDHunter]

It'd probably blow your mind how many people under 40 or even 30 that have a grundle of points. I just turned 30 and I have 12 points for each and I know of several local kids my age that have just that many or more! And we're talking a small town.

Hmmmm, that isn't encouraging for me. That's great for you though as you are sitting good.

I think I'll keep buying points. Actually I think next year I'll start applying and at least have a chance in the random draw.

 

[Zim]

I wonder how many people under 40 or 30 have points? I just turned 31and have 5 points for moose and sheep. I feel like there's a good chance I'll draw in WY even if they cut the tag quotas. What do you think Zim? Think there are that many people younger than me with more points? I won't be trying to draw a primo tag either.

I've been applying in ten states going on 20 years now. I make all my decisions are based on math. The math told me to get out of the WY game when they jacked fees. Very easy decision. Dumped 8 sheep points without regret. Since then I burned my moose points and quit WY. Have not done any math on the current situation, but I can't imagine it's a good idea to stay in that game even prior to this looming quota drop. This is a no brainer. Dump the points and invest elsewhere.

 

[PointsHunter]

It'd probably blow your mind how many people under 40 or even 30 that have a grundle of points. I just turned 30 and I have 12 points for each and I know of several local kids my age that have just that many or more! And we're talking a small town.

There probably are a lot of young "kids" with a stack of points. I've always assumed the density of higher points holders are 40/50 yr olds. I would LOVE to see the demographics on who has what points.

 

[Tim McCoy]

There probably are a lot of young "kids" with a stack of points. I've always assumed the density of higher points holders are 40/50 yr olds. I would LOVE to see the demographics on who has what points.

I am guilty of contributing to the point accumulations of minors... I am not alone. 20 years ago, when I started on points, the math, with the rules and tag allocations of the time, made it a sure deal your kid could draw sheep/moose/top deer and elk units in some cases, while you were still young enough to go along. Once you figured it out, it was compelling to not just buy your points, but also to buy some for the kid. Different deal now. Have to be much more strategic or lucky or have a large budget or change your goals. I suspect there are quite a few relatively young point holders who had points bought for them as kids, or started accumulating points just out of HS/college. I'd love to see the data.

 

[woodtick]

When I was an undergraduate in the Natural Resource department here @ USU there was a ton of us that had fathers just like you Tim, they all started buying points for us as soon as we was old enough. Almost everyone I knew in that department had 8-15 points depending on there age in almost all the western states for grundle of different species.

Like I said it'd probably scare the piss out of ya!

 

[tim]

in 2003 I didn't know a thing about sheep hunting. now I have a 3\4 slam. if you don't play you don't go. Research units that people don't apply for. In 2003 I kayaked the middle fork of the salmon, saw lots of sheep and wanted to go back. I found a unit with 2 tags and 9 people applied for. I applied and drew the tag. unit 26L in Idaho. I can't apply there anymore so why not tell you. In 2006 I was able to buy and sell some land and did really good, with out knowing anything. my brother bought a new heater for his house, I bought a dall sheep hunt. in 2008 I won a small lottery, when asked what I was doing with the money, in my best Disney voice I said I was going sheep hunting and blew the load on a stone sheep hunt. Basically if you don't get in the game and make the game important you wont' go. I put my spare money towards sheep not other things. personally if I was some of you, I would start putting $50 per paycheck in a special account that you create at the bank. every single paycheck put the $50 in and you will be sheep hunting sooner than you think.

s far as points go, just like money, there is always someone with more.

 

[tim]

if you do book a hunt with an outfitter do you research. in 2013 I paid for a combination sheep moose hunt in Alaska. the outfitter took my money and did not take me hunting. we are still dealing with it. I have not been paid back and probably won't be. the repcusions to the outfitter will be interesting.

 

[NDHunter]

When I was an undergraduate in the Natural Resource department here @ USU there was a ton of us that had fathers just like you Tim, they all started buying points for us as soon as we was old enough. Almost everyone I knew in that department had 8-15 points depending on there age in almost all the western states for grundle of different species.

Like I said it'd probably scare the piss out of ya!

Yea I was kind of wondering about that. I know there are some but not a ton of guys under 30 that start buying sheep points on their own. Dads buying points for their sons though sounds like a different story... And I agree, it would be interesting to see the demographics of who has points. I'm sure the G&F would never do that though. I'm sure it would be a huge revenue loss the next year...