"Point Creep"

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
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Dolores, Colorado
I'm 71 and have started to do exactly what you are thinking about. I still apply for points here & Wyoming. Will probably quit applying in Wyoming when I use up my current deer points. Went on a fully guided elk hunt to Wyoming 2 seasons ago, but not last year. This year will be doing a wilderness pack trip for deer. Next year it will be NM for a guided M/L elk. I'm just too damn old to wait for MAYBE getting a tag 8 or 10 years down the road!
 

Fink

Veteran member
Apr 7, 2011
1,961
204
West Side, MoMo
The whole preference points thing is pretty discouraging.. I just started a couple of years ago, and I'm not really sure it was a good idea. I will not chase the ultra blue chip units, but even middle of the road units in Utah or Arizona could take 10+ years to draw. With the amount of money I spend on licenses that I don't even use, I'm probably better off putting that towards a tresspass fee every 2-3 years, and hunting OTC in the meantime.. But, I'd really love to take animals from multiple states, and half (maybe more) the fun for me is seeing new country.

I think I'd like it a lot better if every state operated like ID.
 

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
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Dolores, Colorado
You really have to be picky on how you apply and use pts. Case in point is the M/L elk tag here in Co. The units I usually hunt take 1 pt for an ES tag and usually none for bull or cow. I usually apply for the bull or cow as second choice knowing I'll get it if I don't draw the ES tag. I prefer the ES tag as I'll hunt the first days of the season for a good bull and then if the conditions are not to good, i'll shoot a cow for the freezer. Good to have that option.
 

Old Hunter

Banned
Dec 28, 2011
1,104
0
Buena Vista, Co.
OH, at least when you see us dirty non-residents you can have comfort knowing our tag cost 10x what you paid. And most of us are "lost in the woods" hoping to get lucky.
Doesn't help a bit. I have no say in what you pay. I just want to hunt my home ground. It's the only place I hunt.
 

BKC

Very Active Member
Feb 15, 2012
835
163
The high plains of Colorado
I can only speak of colorado when it comes to preference point creep. enysse, don't get to upset about being excluded from Ranching for Wildlife tags, for every one good animal that gets killed there are probably 10 hunters who have a negative experience.

The preference points works fine for the tags that take 2 to 7 points. There are a lot of people that want premium unit tags and that drives up the points for those tags. Very few people bail out of the pref point chase untill they get too old and see the handwriting on the wall, but for every one person who bails about 10 people get in the chase. I started early and shot plenty of does and cows and now it is all starting to pay off, but i am a resident. I understand the beef that the NR have. When you limit tags to 20% and some units have less than 10 tags total then the creep will get way out of hand for those units. The only really fair way is too have a totally random draw but when do you start this, when someone has 18-20 points and then they get the rug yanked and are told it is now lottery?

I think the co div of wildlife would love to sell more NR tags ( more revenue )but there is too much instate pressure for the opposite to happen. The other thing that many haven't thought of is if more out of staters drew their tags then more outfitters would be out of work. The reason the draw happens so early here is so the out of staters get pissed off, book a hunt with an outfitter with guaranteed tags and spent a lot of money. Outfitting is big business and they are in the hip pockets of many who are in charge, I don't see NR tags getting any easier to draw.

I probably didn't solve anything but that is my 2 cents worth.
 

enysse

New Member
Oct 31, 2011
35
0
New Holstein, WI
I only put in for antelope, elk, and deer in CO. When I draw a antelope tag I'll never put in again. The sheep, mt. goats, and sheep are safe I was too poor when I was young to put in for points and am too old and far behind to apply now. The best way to hunt elk in CO is too hunt private land if you want to hunt big elk and be successful. For what it costs to hunt elk on private....lets say it's nice to watch the Outdoor channel.
 

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
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Dolores, Colorado
See as how BKC also brought up RFW, I'll diverse and spew a little about my experience with it. Myself and my hunting buddy spent quite a few pts getting a couple of these tags. For those who don't know, RFW let tagholders hunt unguided on their private ranches in return for Dept of Wildlife basically giving them a bunch of tags...which they sell to an outfitter. We were allowed to hunt AFTER all their guided hunts were over. The elk were mostly gone, moved into the bordering NF which was not open yet. We hunted hard for 5 days before we saw anything. I finally shot a small 5pt bull & my pard got a cow from the same small herd. Out of 15 hunters, we were the only ones to score. Learned a hard lesson on RFW.....it's not all it's cracked up to be and I'll never apply for one of these tags again.
 

enysse

New Member
Oct 31, 2011
35
0
New Holstein, WI
You guys are scaring me with your ranching for wildlife stories.
I have always wanted a big mule deer but have been afraid to pull the trigger on a outfitted hunt for mule deer. If you are paying $6000 for deer hunt anything less than 175 in. makes me think my money should go elsewhere.
 

enysse

New Member
Oct 31, 2011
35
0
New Holstein, WI
RFW access is free if you draw the tag as a resident...that I know.
I was talking about the landowner tags and still having to pay for access and a guide.
A lot NR's are buying landowner tags and hunting public land. I think it works for the person that lives next door to CO but for everyone else it's a crap shoot.
 

wapiti66

Active Member
Aug 21, 2011
286
0
Kansas
OH, I was only joking about the fees making you feel better...I know how it is to have NR pressure in your hunting grounds. Im not complaining about fees either, it's pricey but I choose to pay for it, it's my vacation every year and I enjoy it...elk or no elk. I also think they are fairly reasonable with their NR tags, plus the OTC option is awesome in my opinion. I still think the point creep is inevitable bc the demand for these hunts has an ever-increasing pool of applicants. The industry seems to be growing rapidly from my perspective and there are only so many animals out there to hunt. I don't see the state changing it's system bc 1) like BKC said, you can't pull the rug out from somebody with 20 points, or even 5 without a huge backlash 2)the state loves getting all that money from applicants to use interest free for a few months
 

Fink

Veteran member
Apr 7, 2011
1,961
204
West Side, MoMo
like BKC said, you can't pull the rug out from somebody with 20 points, or even 5 without a huge backlash 2)the state loves getting all that money from applicants to use interest free for a few months
I think if a state decided to pull the rug out from under point holders, they'd do it in a heartbeat, regardless of any backlash.. Governments have never seemed to take much issue with stealing from people, or changing the rules in the middle of the game.

Regarding borrowing applicant money, I'm sure the state probably has it's hands tied with what it can do with the money, since the time frame is so short.. And the interest they collect off of holding your money isn't that substantial.. They borrowed about $700 from me last year, if they invested it for 60 days, and got 3-4%, they'd make about $4. I tried to see how many people applied for licenses in CO last year, but couldn't find it
 

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
8,364
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Dolores, Colorado
I tried to see how many people applied for licenses in CO last year, but couldn't find it
I don't think I've ever see that figure either. The only way would be to go to the statistics and add up the total number who applied on every tag in every unit. I'm sure not going to do that!
 

tdub24

Veteran member
Dec 15, 2011
1,331
559
Carlin, NV
They borrowed about $700 from me last year, if they invested it for 60 days, and got 3-4%, they'd make about $4. I tried to see how many people applied for licenses in CO last year, but couldn't find it
Wouldnt 3-4% of $700 be $21-$28 respectively, which is probably added monthly making it $42-$56 for 60 days. Then multiply that by the number of applicants and it can add up to a significant amount of money.
 

1seth

New Member
Jan 15, 2013
19
0
Hattiesburg, MS
That would be correct for 1 year (annulized) but for 60 days that is 1/6th of the year. So $4 would be more accurate.
Wouldnt 3-4% of $700 be $21-$28 respectively, which is probably added monthly making it $42-$56 for 60 days. Then multiply that by the number of applicants and it can add up to a significant amount of money.
 

Brady

Member
Jun 13, 2012
128
0
I don't know what all the other states are like, but Oregon is out of control. I started applying for Antelope when I was 27 years old, back then it took five years to draw the tag I wanted. Here I am now, 42 years old and just now have the 15 points required to draw that tag. After I draw I go back to zero, I will not apply in Oregon for antelope, it could take 25-30 years before I draw another one. I did the math one day and with the amount of points in the system now it would take 13 years to use all the points that are currantly in the system for antelope without selling anymore. Anyone who think points systems are a good thing doesn't apply in Oregon. I have been looking into applying out of state lately and it seeems I am already behind the eight ball in most states. I like Idaho's no points system.
New Mexico is the answer to your antelope problem!