Lead sled question

[jerm8352]

My dad and I are looking into getting a lead sled to help sight in our hunting rifles. Cabelas will have the lead sled solo on sale for $50 this week. Is there that much of a difference between the lead sled solo and the lead sled plus to justify getting the plus at $130 over the solo at $50? We shoot .223, 30.06, and .300 win mag.

Thanks for the help,

Jeremy

 

[WapitiBob]

I have the cheap one and just use it for a rest. It can shake a mid range scope apart if weighed down.

 

[roknHS]

I like the heavier Plus model. I use it alot. I think you can find one in the $100 dollar range if you do some shopping. I use a 15lb weight. Certainly helps tame the large magnum calibers. No issue with rattling anything apart.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I like the heavier Plus model. I use it alot. I think you can find one in the $100 dollar range if you do some shopping. I use a 15lb weight. Certainly helps tame the large magnum calibers. No issue with rattling anything apart.

Give it some time, as the recoil is going to affect a scope sooner or later on the bigger calibers when the rifle isn't allowed to move backwards at the shot like it should. That lead sled is basically designed to eliminate the physics of "where there is an action there is an equal and opposite reaction". If that opposite reaction isn't allowed, IMHO there will be damage to the rifle and/or scope at some time down the line and many people have found that out if you start doing some googling on the subject. People have had the tang area of their wood stocks crack and many have had their scopes go out of of wack after using the sleds.

 

[roknHS]

Hmmmm, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[buckbull]

I use the Lead Sled Plus to zero in scopes. I do not add weight to the sled and only use it to zero rifles. The rest of my shooting at the range is done from bags. I've never had an issue breaking a rifle this way but as topgun mentioned I've read the same stories of rifles or scopes breaking.

 

[Bonecollector]

Solid advise here; you may get lucky, but if you shoot alot, it will catch get you sooner or later.

Give it some time, as the recoil is going to affect a scope sooner or later on the bigger calibers when the rifle isn't allowed to move backwards at the shot like it should. That lead sled is basically designed to eliminate the physics of "where there is an action there is an equal and opposite reaction". If that opposite reaction isn't allowed, IMHO there will be damage to the rifle and/or scope at some time down the line and many people have found that out if you start doing some googling on the subject. People have had the tang area of their wood stocks crack and many have had their scopes go out of of wack after using the sleds.

 

[sneakypete]

I bought a sled this and I tend to shoot better off sand bags, after reading what top gun posted it makes a lot of sense.

 

[jerm8352]

I would only use it to sight in scopes. What do you guys recommend then to sight in rifles? Thanks for all the help

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I would only use it to sight in scopes. What do you guys recommend then to sight in rifles? Thanks for all the help

Sandbags for the forend and under the stock to get the rifle settled on the bull, but keep the butt of the rifle on your shoulder so it can move back naturally with the shot. If you can't shoot a rifle accurately like that on the bench, IMHO you have no business using it out in the field on animals where you certainly don't have a bench situation.

 

[jerm8352]

I am just looking for ways to eliminate any of my mistakes while testing new handloads and for sighting in my rifle. When I am just an inch or so off of bullseye at 200 yds I have hard time telling if its due to my error or the scope is not exactly sighted in for the load. The benches at my range do not really compliment me and I just want to make sure my scopes are dead on. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I am just looking for ways to eliminate any of my mistakes while testing new handloads and for sighting in my rifle. When I am just an inch or so off of bullseye at 200 yds I have hard time telling if its due to my error or the scope is not exactly sighted in for the load. The benches at my range do not really compliment me and I just want to make sure my scopes are dead on. Thanks for the help guys.

That's why you should shoot at least a 3 shot or preferably a 5 shot group with a little time between shots to let the barrel cool off a bit. That should tell you whether you need to adjust your scope, adjust your handload if you are developing one from scratch and it's not giving you a good group, etc. If you are developing a load for hunting, IMHO 1" off at 200 yards like you mentioned is pretty good for normal range hunting. Now if you're talking about shooting in competition it's a whole different ballgame, as well as if you are going to be shooting long range where you'll want to be shooting one hole groups at 200 yards to continue on way out to 3 to 5 times that far.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Sandbags for the forend and under the stock to get the rifle settled on the bull, but keep the butt of the rifle on your shoulder so it can move back naturally with the shot. If you can't shoot a rifle accurately like that on the bench, IMHO you have no business using it out in the field on animals where you certainly don't have a bench situation.

You are 100% correct. I would also not be shooting at 200 yards for sighting in. With a new load I would start at 50 yds, shoot 3. This group should be less than 1". Then move to 100 yds, shoot 3. I like to keep my rifle sighted in for 2" high at 100. The shoot 1 or 2 at 200 to verify where you are....should be an inch or so high.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

That's why you should shoot at least a 3 shot or preferably a 5 shot group with a little time between shots to let the barrel cool off a bit. That should tell you whether you need to adjust your scope, adjust your handload if you are developing one from scratch and it's not giving you a good group, etc. If you are developing a load for hunting, IMHO 1" off at 200 yards like you mentioned is pretty good for normal range hunting. Now if you're talking about shooting in competition it's a whole different ballgame, as well as if you are going to be shooting long range where you'll want to be shooting one hole groups at 200 yards to continue on way out to 3 to 5 times that far.

Right again.

 

[jerm8352]

Thanks guys. I just want to be as ethical of a hunter as I can be.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Thanks guys. I just want to be as ethical of a hunter as I can be.

We all need to follow that philosophy and do as much as possible to always achieve humane kills! As CC mentioned, normally the best way to start out shooting with a new scope, a different bullet or load than you have been using. etc., is to shoot at a close distance to get fine tuned and then start stretching the distance out to see what kind of group you get at 100-200 yards or more. You shouldn't just rely on a ballistics table for stuff like that, but rather should shoot and practice out to whatever the furtherest distance you expect to be shooting on a hunt. IMHO you will normally want to have most centerfire rifles shooting from 1 1/2" to about 3" high at 100 yards if you will be hunting out west, as that will normally achieve a zero at around 200-225 yards. That allows a person to hold dead on an animal's vital zone out to at least 300 yards with no vertical compensation. That is how I have my .243, 25-06, and 2 of my 3 30-06s set that I take out to Wyoming where I may shoot out to around 300 yards or a little further. My sporterized 03A3 30-06 that I now have in a synthetic stock for use strictly in the lousy upper Mchigan November weather for whitetails is zeroed dead on at 100 yards because there are very few areas where I hunt up there where a shot further than that would be taken, so there is no need to have it shooting high at 100 yards.

Now with all the adjustable turret scopes available a person can just turn the elevation to a known range and rather than hold higher on an animal at a long distance like guys used to do you can hold the reticle right on the animal even though the rifle is aimed well above the target to drop the bullet into it. Of course, you now also have the lower priced scopes with reticles that have multiple stadia below the main reticle. Those are placed on the target at the known distance each of them is designed for using a particular load in that rifle/caliber. Things have come a long way from when I started shooting/hunting back in the early 50s. Some of it has been a positive and some IMHO has been a negative (LR hunting at extreme ranges where the animal has no chance, etc.) and I'll just leave it at that because we have already had a great thread on the latter!

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

We all need to follow that philosophy and do as much as possible to always achieve humane kills! As CC mentioned, normally the best way to start out shooting with a new scope, a different bullet or load than you have been using. etc., is to shoot at a close distance to get fine tuned and then start stretching the distance out to see what kind of group you get at 100-200 yards or more. You shouldn't just rely on a ballistics table for stuff like that, but rather should shoot and practice out to whatever the furtherest distance you expect to be shooting on a hunt. IMHO you will normally want to have most centerfire rifles shooting from 1 1/2" to about 3" high at 100 yards if you will be hunting out west, as that will normally achieve a zero at around 200-225 yards. That allows a person to hold dead on an animal's vital zone out to at least 300 yards with no vertical compensation. That is how I have my .243, 25-06, and 2 of my 3 30-06s set that I take out to Wyoming where I may shoot out to around 300 yards or a little further. My sporterized 03A3 30-06 that I now have in a synthetic stock for use strictly in the lousy upper Mchigan November weather for whitetails is zeroed dead on at 100 yards because there are very few areas where I hunt up there where a shot further than that would be taken, so there is no need to have it shooting high at 100 yards.

Now with all the adjustable turret scopes available a person can just turn the elevation to a known range and rather than hold higher on an animal at a long distance like guys used to do you can hold the reticle right on the animal even though the rifle is aimed well above the target to drop the bullet into it. Of course, you now also have the lower priced scopes with reticles that have multiple stadia below the main reticle. Those are placed on the target at the known distance each of them is designed for using a particular load in that rifle/caliber. Things have come a long way from when I started shooting/hunting back in the early 50s. Some of it has been a positive and some IMHO has been a negative (LR hunting at extreme ranges where the animal has no chance, etc.) and I'll just leave it at that because we have already had a great thread on the latter!

Good advice......

 

[jerm8352]

Do you guys have any suggestions as to a setup/which bags to buy? Thanks

 

[WapitiBob]

6-9 bipod on the front for bench shooting, 9-13 for hunting. Then a 2/4/6 bean bag for the back. Or that empty sled. I have no discernible difference in impact when shot off a bipod, bags, or an empty sled.
Sight in at 200, then shoot 400/600 or if that's too far, check marks at 300/400 so you know what it's doing.
You can make bags out of old levi pant legs and some of those little foam beads.

 

[coues52]

1+ Top Gun & colo shooter..also for a handy rear bag check out "sage flats" filled with foam beads..they make some great lite weight pack bags only about $15.00 each or so.. PS: trouble with the hold over reticles they usually only work for the higher powers like 14 x on leupold 4.5x14 b&c reticle..coues52