How To Increase Draw Odds

[missjordan]

All systems have their plusses and minuses. However I do think any state system should put a waiting period in place after you draw a tag. Five years seems long but one or two is probably reasonable.

 

[HiMtnHnter]

Wyoming's wildlife is finite but not fixed. Wyoming's deer population is not what it was in 1990 (WG&F screwed that up) nor what it was in the 30 years prior to that. Nowadays there's just too many predators (humans included) taking their slice of deer pie. Reduce our buck deer tag quotas, eliminate all doe tags, reduce the coyote population, control big cat numbers and the deer numbers will rise. We need more animals and the draw odds will improve. It's that simple.

Put it this way... Fence in 100 elk with a nominal but sufficient amount of hay they can eat for one year and you will have 100+ elk the next year. Then double the hay (improved habitat) and add 10 wolves to the pen the following year. One year later you will have zero elk.

I agree that Wyoming is the best place to hunt, that's why I live here, but that doesn't mean that it can't, shouldn't, or hasn't been better than it currently is. I think the WG&F needs a to take a different approach to game management than it has. The status quo doesn't seem to be doing much especially when it comes to deer.

Good post. . . Add to that over a decade of persistent drought making for poor range conditions year after year. Sure, there are spikes in moisture. . . This year's scaring the crap out of me.

My point was every draw system is just another way to divy up the same amount of tags. IMO there are more important things to focus on than hunters!
All this legislation is focused on how to improve things for humans. Backwards.

 

[WY ME]

Thanks HiMtn
I know what you're saying about range coditions. Me and my daughter hunted antelope in area 90/2 and saw the worst antelope hunting I've personally experienced. There were stretches of 5-10 miles where we never even saw an antelope. We also saw some big stretches of sagebrush that looked almost dead, probably from the drought a few years ago. I don't think that was a coincidence.

I really enjoyed hunting with my girl but I wish there had been more antelope for us to chase. My daughter missed a buck but I never saw one I wanted to take.

 

[HiMtnHnter]

Thanks HiMtn
I know what you're saying about range coditions. Me and my daughter hunted antelope in area 90/2 and saw the worst antelope hunting I've personally experienced. There were stretches of 5-10 miles where we never even saw an antelope. We also saw some big stretches of sagebrush that looked almost dead, probably from the drought a few years ago. I don't think that was a coincidence.

I really enjoyed hunting with my girl but I wish there had been more antelope for us to chase. My daughter missed a buck but I never saw one I wanted to take.

I have a picture of my son in our antelope area back in 2012 and a picture of my other son in the exact same spot last season. The 2012 picture looks like a moon landscape, last years pictures show very tall grass in the same spot. That year hurt bad, and they were still recovering from 2010 winter . . . lets hope we start getting some moisture.

FYI, I did not kill an antelope this last year in that spot for the same reason you mentioned . . . prior to 2012, finding a good buck was very doable . . .

 

[WY ME]

Ya know the rest of my story is almost identical to yours. Seven years ago, when my other daughter was twelve I took her to the same place (90/2) that I hunted last fall. Back then we saw tons of antelope, and she tagged out.

 

[buckbull]

All this legislation is focused on how to improve things for humans. Backwards.

Nailed it.

 

[Elkoholic307]

I don't think the animals are suffering by people trying to improve the odds of drawing.

 

[dukeball33]

I don't know how other states, with PP systems, deal with leftover/general licenses and accumulated points. Can you still hunt general units and accumulate points?

 

[shootbrownelk]

How does the G&F back them? In Wyoming its illegal for the G&F to lobby for or against any legislation same as support or oppose. If you go to the G&F meetings, they'll tell you their research shows the majority of residents support preference points. Might be by a small amount, but its still a majority. A number of higher ups I've spoke with at the G&F personally support pref points...

BBB, you're right about the G&F supporting resident PP's as do about 99% of the residents at the G&F meetings wanting them too. The only ones that I've seen at the meetings that were opposed were a couple of prominent Outfitters.

 

[buckbull]

I don't think the animals are suffering by people trying to improve the odds of drawing.

The point is if all the proposed legislation was focused around building and maintaining herd levels such as habitat improvment; the draw odds would go down because there would be a greater supply of animals.

 

[Elkoholic307]

That sounds fine and dandy but I still don't buy it. My local newspaper recently said G&F considered raising the Bighorn's elk population to 40,000 animals but didn't think the mountain could handle that many and decided to stick with their 30,000 figure. What kind of legislature is going to improve the carrying capacity on an already outstanding elk habitat?

 

[Hilltop]

That sounds fine and dandy but I still don't buy it. My local newspaper recently said G&F considered raising the Bighorn's elk population to 40,000 animals but didn't think the mountain could handle that many and decided to stick with their 30,000 figure. What kind of legislature is going to improve the carrying capacity on an already outstanding elk habitat?

For that mountain probably nothing. However there are many areas of the state where different herd levels are well below carrying capacity. This applies to everything from antelope to moose... Some anti-wolf legislation would do wonders! Maybe even let us take out a grizz or two...Maybe look at restricting some grazing by cattle on big game winter range? There are things possible they are just not willing to do what is necessary right now.

 

[HiMtnHnter]

That sounds fine and dandy but I still don't buy it. My local newspaper recently said G&F considered raising the Bighorn's elk population to 40,000 animals but didn't think the mountain could handle that many and decided to stick with their 30,000 figure. What kind of legislature is going to improve the carrying capacity on an already outstanding elk habitat?

Elk populations are fine and have risen steadily in recent years. At the same time mule deer populations have generally suffered in these areas.

It might be a good idea to consider the many years of persistent drought and poor range conditions (and habitat loss, predation, etc . . .) against the idea of rising elk populations. Elk use a lot of range resources and have a much more varied diet than mule deer, as well as a higher tolerance to weather. In many areas we've just traded mule deer for elk.

Elk is the best thing going in WY right now (they also make a lot of money), but for how long will this be the case? At what expense (the range resource, other species like mule deer)?

 

[Elkoholic307]

Some anti-wolf legislation would do wonders! Maybe even let us take out a grizz or two...Maybe look at restricting some grazing by cattle on big game winter range? There are things possible they are just not willing to do what is necessary right now.

The wolf deal has been a constant battle. We were doing good for a while until a judge from back east ended the season before it started.

A lot of the winter range for elk is on private ground. I have a big problem with landowners being told what to do on their own place.

 

[Hilltop]

The wolf deal has been a constant battle. We were doing good for a while until a judge from back east ended the season before it started.

A lot of the winter range for elk is on private ground. I have a big problem with landowners being told what to do on their own place.

Agree with you completely on the private land. I do however see a ton of cattle and sheep grazing on low elevation Forest, BLM, and other public land that is all considered winter range. I'm not in any way against all of it but I do believe winter range grazing to be a significant limiting factor in the carrying capacity for a given area. My point is there are options to consider to increase habitat and populations but they all come at an expense to someone. It would be nice to see some of the legislation along this line of thinking.