Vanish
Member
Indeed, even without an income tax, WYoming has been running on a budget surplus. Make no mistake about it, raising the price of tags is NOT directly to pay for conservation.
Holy crap wyoming!!
- Thread starter NDHunter
- Start date
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Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
The problem with most G & F entities is that their mission has changed over the years. They now manage almost all the "natural resources" ( I use that term knowning they don't get involved much in minerals/oil) versus just the fish & game like 50 to 100 years ago. They do this for the most part with hunters and fishermans $$$. Managing nongame and fish costs lots of money too. Somehow the general population has to contribute to this mandate. Too many times the treehuggers (Sierra Club, Earthfirst, etc) have gone to court and forced the inclusion of lots of things that were never envisioned as part of the G & F dept's mission. Who pays for this.....why the hunters and fisherman of course!!!
Doe Nob
Very Active Member
So...going back to your earlier comments....In WY as a non-resident when i visit I pay taxes on whatever I buy. My property taxes go to pay for school, trash, sewer etc, things I use by living at my house. If its true WY G&F isn't recieving tax funds from residents other than tag sales, that argument kind of goes out the window and NR should be afforded more consideration for funding a major portion of the G& F budget. Particularly on lands owned by the Federal Government and maintained by any non-state agency. Is that going to happen, no - but that attitude of "Well move here then" is BS, residents are paying a lot less - bottom line.
Chippy Hacky
Member
- Jul 21, 2012
- 83
- 0
I would like to see some ideas of taking fish/wildlife management private. Maybe let the Mule Deer Foundation take over Mule Deer management and the Elk Foundation take over Elk management. Have elected or appointed public officials "oversee" the operation and let them come up with new ideas. Not saying that those two entities would be the ones, just throwing their names out there as an idea.
No matter what you do there is soo much government waste. Being in the fire service in high rank prior to starting my own business, I have seen lots of waste. The funny thing is that the waste is all justified but when you have people who know nothing other than spending someone else's money they have blinders on. Public entities must create and devise busy work in order to justify their funding. Let's face it, not to many public entities are willing to give up their funding and slit their own throat, even if it is in the best interest of wildlife. What happens is that some other public entity picks up your funding because they created something (busy work) to do with your funding.
I think that private entities could be more flexible, more efficient and have the ability to bring in more volunteers and keep costs way, way down. It could be done in one mountain range, for example or one part of a state, just kind of a test.
Unfortunately it won't happen though.
No matter what you do there is soo much government waste. Being in the fire service in high rank prior to starting my own business, I have seen lots of waste. The funny thing is that the waste is all justified but when you have people who know nothing other than spending someone else's money they have blinders on. Public entities must create and devise busy work in order to justify their funding. Let's face it, not to many public entities are willing to give up their funding and slit their own throat, even if it is in the best interest of wildlife. What happens is that some other public entity picks up your funding because they created something (busy work) to do with your funding.
I think that private entities could be more flexible, more efficient and have the ability to bring in more volunteers and keep costs way, way down. It could be done in one mountain range, for example or one part of a state, just kind of a test.
Unfortunately it won't happen though.
SouthernWyo
Member
- Mar 11, 2011
- 62
- 1
Doe Nob, you pay taxes here whenever you visit, we pay them all year, big difference. If you don't want to pay any sales tax in Wyoming, the choice is pretty simple, don't make the trip up here. No one is holding a gun to your head.
FYI, Residents pay less individually, but finance a larger portion of the WGFD budget collectively. The argument about land ownership has no bearing on financing wildlife management, which is a state responsibility. That argument holds no water and has been beaten to death.
Chippy, with all due respect, privatized management of the state's wildlife is quite possibly the worst possible suggestion that I have ever heard. Take a look into the North American model of wildlife management...
FYI, Residents pay less individually, but finance a larger portion of the WGFD budget collectively. The argument about land ownership has no bearing on financing wildlife management, which is a state responsibility. That argument holds no water and has been beaten to death.
Chippy, with all due respect, privatized management of the state's wildlife is quite possibly the worst possible suggestion that I have ever heard. Take a look into the North American model of wildlife management...
Doe Nob,
This is an interesting thread. Non-residents bitching about tag prices in a state they do not live in? The answer is simple... if you don't like it, don't visit. I doubt we will miss you.
This is an interesting thread. Non-residents bitching about tag prices in a state they do not live in? The answer is simple... if you don't like it, don't visit. I doubt we will miss you.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
Be careful what you wish for! If there were no NR's to pay the bills of the G & F Dept, the residents probably couldn't afford the tags. Talk about a rich man's sport!!!
There sure are a lot of strong opinions about this issue. I can't afford the price of a tag in WY so I just won't go. I would be more worried about how they're going to spend/waste the extra money. I've seen plenty of PLOTS land in ND (private land leased to the ND game and fish department for public hunting) that are just plowed fields. You tell me why I should be paying more to my government so they could spend the money on a piece of land that is a flat section of plowed dirt. There are plenty of good plots areas too, but even one plowed field is wasted money and gets me angry that I paid for a percentage of that (even if it is a small percentage). I do like my game and fish dept to be well funded, I just want to make sure the money is used in a resourceful manner that benefits the "working man" hunter.
I am beginning to think that the out of staters that are complaining are just mad because wyoming is one of the more affordable states to hunt right now. Most if the other states are in the same ballpark of what Wyoming is proposing for license increases. As far as I know the other states have no problems selling tags to nr hunters. Just because the Bills, Bobs, and Joes can't afford it anymore doesnt mean the Franks can't. Fact is licenses will still be sold and there are a handful of the nr hunters that are sitting back and smiling because they know that the drawing odds are going to increase significantly so instead of waiting five years to draw a good tag it will only be two years. Sorry to those of you that can't afford it. Some of the resident tags are going to be going up 150 percent while the same nr tag is only going to be going up 20-30 percent do some of the nr will be happy that the gap will close a little bit.
No matter how any state manages their wildlife, someone will be unhappy. However, it looks to me that Wyoming has done a pretty good job overall. Given the hand Wyoming has been dealt with the wolf reintroduction and the accompanying lawsuits, the cost has certainly gone up. Properly managing wildlife is expensive. As a non-resident of every state except Alaska, I would prefer to hunt those states that have sound management. If I have to pay more for that, so be it. Will it hurt my wallet? Sure, I might not be able to hunt Wyoming as soon or as often, but when I do get too, hopefully the hunt will be of good quality. I do know that every state or federal agency can and do waste money, that's an issue we should take up with the legislature of the states. Privatization is not the answer and is unconstitutional. I'll pay the extra money, not gladly, but willingly if Wyoming continues to manage their resources well.
Well said. It eases the pain of higher prices if the money goes to a good cause and betters your hunting chances and experiences.
Doe Nob
Very Active Member
Have you ever paid for a non-resident tag anywhere? If not that explains a lot about this attitude.
Every one is a non-resident in every other state.
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Doe Nob
Very Active Member
And on the topic, I think a supertag raffle system would be more egalitarian and help the budget as much if not more without reducing our base as hunters.
Drhorsepower
Veteran member
Doe Nob
Very Active Member
Nevada dream tags are $5 and I believe raised $167k after expenses in their inagural season, That was for 5 tags and they also make you buy a $10 habitat stamp before you can buy raffle chances. I'll try and look up more when I get time, headed to elk camp tomorrow!
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SouthernWyo
Member
- Mar 11, 2011
- 62
- 1
Doe nob, actualy it explains alot about your attitude. Belive it or not, there are quite a few folks out there that only hunt their own states and don't spend thousands bankrolling non resident hunting licences. I have a tough time finding sympathy for folks with the disposable income to fund what amounts to pure recreation. Like I've said, life is full of choices, if you don't think the increased fees are worth the return, then don't spend the $$ on the product.
Doe Nob
Very Active Member
I believe it, we used to meat hunt to survive when I was a child. May have to again in the future. I don't now though. Eastman's is all about big game western trophy hunting and a lot of it done out of state, I thought that's what this community was into, do you even subscribe to the magazine?
I am pretty sure hunting is all pure recreation for all of us. If you do some accounting of what that elk burger costs to get to your freezer for the equivalent beef you could have bought in the store, you might come out ahead not hunting at all.
The bottom line is the more expensive it gets for anyone the harder it is to do it and it excludes people. I'm more worried about the father with three sons that can't afford to go antelope hunting now and so they never get introduced to the sport and get into other things. Raising costs decreases our political base. Its a national issue.
I am pretty sure hunting is all pure recreation for all of us. If you do some accounting of what that elk burger costs to get to your freezer for the equivalent beef you could have bought in the store, you might come out ahead not hunting at all.
The bottom line is the more expensive it gets for anyone the harder it is to do it and it excludes people. I'm more worried about the father with three sons that can't afford to go antelope hunting now and so they never get introduced to the sport and get into other things. Raising costs decreases our political base. Its a national issue.
In God We Trust
Very Active Member
Well I have waited to weigh in on this but here goes. First off I am a Colorado resident, born and raised in the west. I think the us (west) vs. everyone else is a bad attitude to have amongst hunters. I hunt Wyoming at least every other year and the G and F does a good job managing the wildlife as a whole and I have never met nicer field officers. I also hunt AZ, NE, and IA alternating years. I see both sides of the resident non resident coin. Believe me we see more than our share of non resident hunters here in Colorado. My problem with Wyoming's price hike is they are so steep so fast. I understand the "special" tags are just that and will cater to hard core or wealthy hunters. But over 500 for a deer tag and 700 for an elk tag is steep. Colorado charges less than that and the hunting opportunities are pretty good here as well. I will continue to hunt Wyoming but probably every 3 years instead of every year or two. Wyoming residents, the "if you don't like it quit coming here and stop crying" bit sounds arrogant and me first. Be careful what you wish for, all of us that live in states that see a lot of non resident hunters benefit from those guys by low tag prices for us and millions of dollars pumped into our states. I wouldn't gloat that these guys feel they are being jacked around with huge tag price increases. Wyoming is a different case than Colorado or Utah because there are not as many residents to bear the majority of the financial load of a G and F operation. Everyone remember if we don't have non resident hunters we all pay over 150.00 for big game tags as residents. Also be glad your state is only crowded during hunting season, if all of them "moved to Wyoming" it would be overcrowded like Colorado has become. At the end of the day we need all of the hunters to stand together or we will loose more and more hunting opportunities. Good luck hunting and God bless.
Doe Nob has a point, if it gets too expensive you will see more kids sitting at home playing Xbox and not going afield. Then who will carry on the tradition as we grow older and quit going!
Doe Nob has a point, if it gets too expensive you will see more kids sitting at home playing Xbox and not going afield. Then who will carry on the tradition as we grow older and quit going!
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