Holy crap wyoming!!

[Eberle]

This is what I wrote WG&F

To whom it may concern: I've hunted Wyoming multiple times over the last 12 years. I've got good memories. The proposed tag increase will be the end of hunting Wyoming for me should it pass! I've got maximum points for elk, mule deer & antelope. Should this pass I'll exhaust my points in 2013 & say farewell to Wyoming. I think the NR tags are two high as it is right now. Most of the land I hunt is Federal property that every US citizen pays taxes on! I think it is a violation of my constituional right for me to pay a NR price for a tag anyway. The price increase is the last straw for me. If Teddy Roosevelt was hear he would be ashamed you guys! You need to do some serious soul-searching!

Sincerely, Bryan Eberle

 

[CoHiCntry]

This is why I only hunt in New Mexico! Out of state hunting fees and costs are ridiculous! Stick with your own state and do a lot of scouting and you will take some good trophies. If out of state hunting wasn't so ridiculously expensive, I'd do it to.

I think your on the right track here... I've been applying for several states for a few years but the list of applications get's fewer and fewer every year. With this tag increase in Wyoming I may drop them too or at least burn the points I have and never return. I already dropped my sheep and moose points in Wyoming after the last increase.

I'm a Colorado resident so it's a little easier for me. I shot a 170's bighorn sheep last year, a 79" antelope with my bow this year, and just got back from a successful moose hunt where I was blessed with a 50" bull. So I'm starting to ask myself, why spend ridiculous amounts of money to hunt other states, when, if I put in the time researching and scouting right here in my own backyard (so to speak) I can be rewarded with great animals every year? I'm definitely not opposed to filling the freezer with a cow or doe either! Someone mentioned how many points some of the top units take in Colorado. This is definitely true but there's good hunting in other units too. My 79" antelope for example was taken with a second choice archery tag.

I feel for those of you who don't live in a western state but love to hunt the west. Not sure the answer for you? Start embracing turkey and whitetail I guess? No good answer...

 

[Whisky]

Most of you guys are pretty lucky in the fact you live in states where you can hunt them fine critters every year. Here in ND our antelope season is closed, our elk, moose and bighorn tags are once in a lifetime and impossible to draw, and our mule deer herd is suffering big time (and whitetail). Since bitten with the "western bug", sitting in a tree stand waiting for a good whitetail to walk by doesn't seem as exciting as it once was. And any land worth a hoot for that is very tough to come by these days (which is one of the reasons why you guys in Western states are seeing an increase in hunters on your fine public land). As more and more fine hunting land and habitat gets chewed up for farming all across the US, and the pay to play mentality spreads, and the greed, more and more people will look into the western public land hunts IMO.

It sucks all around, and if I want to play, I'm gonna have to pay unfortunately.

 

[Whisky]

And when I say pay, I'm referring to tags and their increase in price, not lining the pockets of landowners with access fees, or guides....I'll stick to public land. If the 62" antelope or the 150" mule deer is the best I can do there, that's just fine with me.

 

[Ilovethewest]

well NONE of you can complain until you come to Wisconsin to hunt. It is the essence of a rich mans game. Every person with their own little piece of land......food plots everywhere. Public land beeming with people. I do well enough of of sheer hard work and determination on public lands...........but its a tough haul. And you have to seriously downgrade your idewa of "trophy" unless you own land. For all that ails the western hunter, its 100% worse for us easterners. Unless your a big money guy, hunting is tough. So to me, the West is almost heaven like. High pressured areas in Wyoming are like desolate wasteland for me. Its nothing to see 20-30 guys on a 400 acre public chunk during gun season. Thats not even considered "high pressure" for WI.

This is disappointing......the bad part is, you will see the fringe western states (dakotas,nebraska) get even more pressure. Eventually people will just pay the fees.......but whats next? 750 for a deer tag? 1200 for elk??

 

[Wyohunter]

Geez I hope Wyoming never ends up like wisconsin. Personally I don't care if I had to pay the same as nonresidents it's well worth it for the experience here. I think Wyoming is one of the cheaper states to hunt in right now anyway.

 

[Ilovethewest]

i am not joking either. about 4 years back, I hunted a public land of about 450 acres. I showed up 1.5 years before shooting hrs, and there was probably 20 trucks parked there. On a 4k acre state park, of which about 3000 acres are hunteable, there was 40-50 trucks opening morning. In some places where there are designated parking areas, they are so full you cant even park.

We have far less public land, and have had 600K gun hunters...........Wyoming has usually what? 80,000?

so yes..........to me, Wyoming is Heaven on earth. Unless you own land in Wisconsin, its kind crazy. Thats why I bowhunt. And I bowhunt the deepest nastiest thickest areas as far from any road as I can. Its the only way I ever seen any deer at all. Then I know guys who own land, and there are deer everywhere. And if its isnt a 150" buck, its small.

Yep............Wisconsin is the epitamy of Rich Mans Hunting. Wyoming is where my heart is. Hunt harder and smarter and you can have success!!!!!

 

[Fink]

I keep coming back to this thread, and can't help but look at the issue through a different lense. While, yes, these states should be able to run far more effeciently than they do, that will never change. One of the issues with Government agencies is that if they don't spent all of this years budget, and ask for more, it'll get cut, cause someone else is ready in line to take the 'surplus'

The real issue at hand is that the Western game animals are a finite resource. I'm a pretty big supply and demand guy, so it's hard for me to agrue against a tag increase when there was over 40,000 people building points or applying for elk tags in Wyoming. 40,000 people applying for a very limited number of tags. And thats just the non residents!

I don't want to pay for a $1,300 elk tag, just like nobody else does, but it seems with the demand being that high, the state is almost doing themselves a disservice to not jack the tag prices up. As a non resident, I'm just glad the tag price isn't $2k (yet...)

 

[Doe Nob]

Idaho and MT have found the supply/demand equilibrium, and its not that far off from where WY will be if these price increases get approved, I don't think they are leaving a ton on the table.

I apply for the NM bighorn tag, its $3200 for a non-res, but I figure finding a way to pay off that credit card bill is lucky problem to have to solve.

 

[VTBwana]

My crew has been hunting elk in NW WY for the last 6+ years...looks like we will be going to CO soon. If this passes, we are dumping points and doing a last hunt in 2013 and bugging out to Colorado. Bonus, no wolves or griz in CO. We backpack in far enough to get to good bulls in CO as well as WY, I can get into 330+ bull OTC Archery in the Flat Tops of CO. Too bad for WY if they do it. They will really be screwing all the small businesses there. I left a comment on their website too.

 

[Ilovethewest]

To me the bigger picture is just budgets in general. As they continue to be penny pinched, this will happen in many areas of life, not just in tag fees.

I get the supply and demand thing, but is it ethical to do so. Just b/c something is legal to do, or it works financially, it doesnt make it the RIGHT thing to do. And there are long term consequences. A shrinking hunting population that is slowly turning into a rich mans game, does not bode well for the future of hunting in general. Having a high number of hunters nationwide gives us political clout, which keep the anti's at bay. reduce our numbers too much, and so goes our political clout, and the anti's gain.

So once again, just b/c you CAN do something doesnt mean you SHOULD do something. Doing what is RIGHT trumps all. Is this "right" to perpetually gouge the little guy???? You make that call.

I will just keep hunting until they make it unaffordable, then I will have to quit. What else can a guy do?

 

[ivorytip]

doe nob said it right. but more people that want to hunt here the higher it gets. to be honest.... and no ofesne to any out of staters, but when i drive in to the bas of a trail head to find nothing but out of state trucks parked there it kinda is a bummer. flattered that they enjoy idaho so much but bummed that they found a good spot. and if youve ever hunted out of state once you find a good spot that spot is your go to spot each time you revisit. idk, mixed emotions, i love helping out of staters out when they come but not sure why it bugs when i see all the trucks arent from here. heck most are cali and wisconsin, oddly enough.

 

[ivorytip]

everytime ive talked with them they have been nothing but nice and are hunting just like i am. i think its a guy thing. protective territory thing i guess. but is what it is

 

[hoshour]

I told WY G&F that this just moves hunting for NRs increasingly to being a rich man's sport. It's just un-American to take hunting out of the working man's reach.

These guys seem to forget that they work for us! We pay their budgets and salaries. I hope a lot of angry voices remind them of that.

 

[Ilovethewest]

You are right on that. Their job is to manage wildlife. And with state budget cuts and rising costs everywhere, how do you get more funds in order to do that properly. I get that. But it does make things more difficult for alot of people, and that is a very real and very negative side effect. There are always plus/minus to any policy decision, and this one is no different. I see things both ways. Since budget cuts are the "in" thing these days (wife is a public school teacher so we have felt this in a pretty large financial way).........when revenues are down, the game and fish has to make up the difference somewhere...........cut services or increase revenue. As a lover of the outdoors and of the wonderful animals we hunt, to me cutting services is not a good option. But is increases from 315 to 550 really necessary? Is it right to jump them that much? Is it right for the state legislature to squeeze the GF that much?

Sadly there are really no clear cut answers to any of these problems. There is no black and white. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in these days.

On the actual Management front, on the mule deer end of things, I actually think Wyoming has done a poor job of management. I owuld love to see them go into more of a micro-management style. Scrap the Region tags (yes even though I am hunting a General Region next week) I think region tags need to go. I also would mind seeing a Mule Deer and Whitetail Tags. Maybe have the mulie tag the high 550, but the whitetail tag 200, or even 150. I think people hunting an area with mixed populations, people would get the expensive mule tag, and then "add on" the whitetail. Not only would this increase revenues to the state (550+150=700) for a tag that they only would have gotten 550 for.............it may also encourage people to shoot more whitetatils, which would bolster the mulie pops. I for one, coming from Wisconsin, will not shoot a whitetail on a tag that costs 550. Unless he is 160" or better, I wont be shooting. Now adding on a 2nd buck tag for 150?? I may shoot an extra whitetail for 150 bucks.

So while I get the need for increased revenues, there are both good and bad side effects to this. Whether long term its for the best, we shall see.

 

[birdhunter]

I personally am getting tired of hearing people complain about how Wyoming is managed. Our game and fish does the best they can with what they have. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Wyo has the best opportunity to shoot a branch antlered elk in the lower 48. The mule deer problem is nation wide. They are falling hard. They game and fish are having statewide meetings with the public to see what is best for EVERYONE!!! Not just what is best for the dept. to make money. Price tag increases are one option. Seperate mulie and whitetail tags is another. The super tag auction, along with selling special stamps which the money will go to wildlife management (which I would bet not one NR will purchase) are all options they are considering. So please, don't jump the gun and assume that the price increase is the only option until you yourself have read into this a little further!!!

Personally, I feel that if you don't like what the state is doing, then don't come here. Trust me, it won't hurt the state. Someone else will just jump in your place instead of you! Right now Wyo is average or below average to what most states charge for out of state tags in the West. The price increase would put them at the top. I'm really tired of the millions of people living outside of Wyo trying to control what goes on here in Wyo. They have put a stop to coal, oil, and gas production and have cut 100's of jobs. The funny thing is, they all either fly here to protest or drive here. All of which requires the use of coal and oil!!!!! Now the NR want to control how we manage our wildlife for whats best for the NR. Why dont you think about whats best for Wyo, because the G&F really are in need of money. The game and fish have struggled for a few years now trying to be able to afford food for the elk on the winter ranges. Thankfully, some rich guy usually comes through and donates a couple million so it can be done.

So I thank the game and fish for all they do. Putting their lives at risk patrolling our forests and dealing with all the morons that poach and bitch about crappy management. They never can and never will be able to satisfy everyone out there. They do make mistakes, but who doesn't!

 

[Ilovethewest]

good post birdhunter. I have said numerous times that I have had nothing but positive experiences with the WGFD. People in the office, wardens, biologists have been great to talk to and super helpful. There is no doubt that nobody likes tag increases, and it does stink for guys like me in the middle class of america having another increase to deal with. But as I said earlier, when budgets get cut, what are they supposed to do? I personally would like a different policy in mule deer managment, and I think I read in an Eastmans article that WY is looking into that. Thats a good thing. I don think the "region" tags work as well as they may have used to in the past.

And its not just WY that is getting killed in the job front..........regulations are killing many jobs in many states. So i get you there.

I love the state, and have hunted there since I was a kid. My fam has spent thousands and thousands of dollars over the year in the Wyoming. I doubt I will ever stop hunting there unless I simply cant afford it! I have met and talked to so many GOOD people from wyoming (birdhunter being one of them) among many good landowner, hunters, people in towns, and ect. I do wish there was better waysto beter things than tag increases. But in this day and age, budgets are cut everywhere in every facet of state gov't. the GF in WY is no different. But I dont hate the WGF, and I dont hate the state. Its a great state with many great people. I cant wait to drive out there this coming tuesday!

I just hope and pray that the hutning opportunities I grew up with still exist when my kids are old enough to hunt!

 

[sigpros]

I just love how you residents think all that "public" land is "yours". That ground belongs to everyone to use, the sad truth is that hunting is becoming a rich mans game. All the hunting shows and "scoring" of animals will be hunting's demise. And it is happening everywhere. You can't find a place to deer hunt in missouri without paying to lease the land. That is why I was going to start hunting out of state. Sold my little deer hunting spot and figured for the same money I could just hop around out west and pursue different game. But I am heading to wyoming in a couple weeks to try and fill a cow elk tag. Haven't been hunting since colorado raised their rates. It has been way to long since I have ate an elk steak. I would probably pay the $750 for an elk tag if I had a good chance at an elk. Wyoming will see a huge amount of people dumping thier points next year. If nothing else it will be out of spite. And they will see a drop in hunters after the increase. How much I don't know, the increse to lost hunter ratio could even out or they could end up loosing reveune on the deal. And then there will be the guys who went every year that will be the every other or every 3rd year guys. Prices are going up on all things, I just don't think a 50% jump on some of the tags is smart. But what do I know I haven't been to college and wear boots and jeans to work.

 

[sigpros]

I'm not crying at all. I will use the control I have and not spend any of my money in your beloved western state then. No big deal to me, I can go to Africa every 3 to 5 years instead of buying points and tags in wyoming. And I know that the state a
has control over the animals. But maybe the state should pay the fed a fee for the graze the animals eat on the federally owned land? In missouri we have a sales tax that goes to our game and fish dept. I think it's like 1/8 of a cent. It helps out a lot with operating cost. I do agree that it's a slippery slope for sure and it is our responsibility to take care of all wildlife not just the game animals. I just think such a high jump is crazy. Why not do it $50 or $75 a year?

 

[Doe Nob]

hoshour,
Quite a sense of entitlement you have there, did you pay taxes in Wyoming in 2011? Are you paying Wyoming taxes in 2012?

Does Wyoming have a state income tax? They had more tax money than they knew what to do with in Campbell county when I was growing up in Gillette. My jr. high school had a Planetarium!