Grizzly bear in the Bitterroot.

[6mm Remington]

https://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?285744-Grizzly-in-the-Bitterroot

[FONT=&quot]This is about 30 miles south of where I live. I think it's neat they are expanding their range and the populations are doing well. Part of the cry to not de-list the grizzly bear is because they are concerned that the bears are not making a connection between the norther ecosystem and the Yellowstone Park area and south western part of Montana. Looks like the bears are figuring it out for themselves as a natural part of expanding their range. A couple years ago a black bear hunter just over the state line into Idaho up Highway 12 west of Lolo accidentally shot a grizzly bear. They figured that one came down from the West side of the Mission Mountains and over the Nine Mile valley just west of Missoula and crossed the Interstate and kept heading southwest until he got into the Bitterroot mountains. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I hope that in the near future they do de-list the grizzly bear and allow very limited hunting. I feel it's time.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]David[/FONT]

 

[dirtclod Az.]

Wasn't there Grizz on the Bitteroot years ago?Jerimiah Johnson era.?

 

[6mm Remington]

Wasn't there Grizz on the Bitteroot years ago?Jerimiah Johnson era.?

Yes there were! Looks like they are slowly expanding their range and making it home again.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Stevensville is where my Grandfather was born and raised. No grizz there back then, just black bears. Was in Stevensville a few years back to visit some relatives. My Grandfather was raised by his Uncle Ray Metcalf. Lee Metcalf. former US Senator was my Dad's cousin.

 

[ScottR]

They are expanding fast and the theories as to why abound.

Personally I believe the population has moved from strong to very large.

 

[rammont]

Stevensville is where my Grandfather was born and raised. No grizz there back then, just black bears. Was in Stevensville a few years back to visit some relatives. My Grandfather was raised by his Uncle Ray Metcalf. Lee Metcalf. former US Senator was my Dad's cousin.

So what's your point? That the grizzly's have never existed in the Bitterroot Valley or that they simply weren't there when your grandfather lived there?

For what it's worth, I live to the east on the west side of the divide and we are starting to see signs of grizzlies showing up around us. I'm going to assume that it's due to the Yellowstone grizzly population increase.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

So what's your point? That the grizzly's have never existed in the Bitterroot Valley or that they simply weren't there when your grandfather lived there?

For what it's worth, I live to the east on the west side of the divide and we are starting to see signs of grizzlies showing up around us. I'm going to assume that it's due to the Yellowstone grizzly population increase.

They were exterminated from the area. It was about 1900 and I am sure everyone killed as many as they could.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

For those who were not aware of how large the griz range was not that long ago.

 

[BuzzH]

There were grizzlies in the Bitterroots into the late 1940's-early 1950's, my grandfather, who moved to Missoula in 1922, killed one in Big Creek, in the fall of 1945.

IIRC, Bud Moore found a verified track in about 1953-1954 near Elk Summit in the upper Lochsa.

 

[Prerylyon]

All I know is what I read; and I don't live out west so take this FWIW; but some of the more sensible things I have read mention a die off of a certain type of tree that harbored a grub that they eat; among other natural food sources also in decline. Idea there being that as they expand, there is more of them, but less historical natural foods; so they are hungry and more attracted to stock, gut piles, dumps and the like.

Within the last 150 yrs, it seems a consensus of most folks that lived by them in the intermountain west felt pretty intent on exterminating them. Not saying that I agree that was the right thing to do, but there was a motivation there among a significant number of the residents.

It seems there is a situation now where an appreciable number of these grizzly bears in these recovered and expansion areas are getting road killed and euthanized without any sanctioned hunting season, due to human conflict; further complicating using hunting as a management tool. I don't have a solution or know what is best.

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[rammont]

They were exterminated from the area. It was about 1900 and I am sure everyone killed as many as they could.

As has already been posted, the official record says that the grizz were killed off from the Bitterroot around the mid 1940's to 1950 time frame. Personally I don't care either way, I'm not a bear enthusiast and I know that grizzlies are just land sharks and they only live to procreate and eat, they have no other redeeming value. I couldn't care less about returning to the bad old days with grizzlies eating everything they could find.

 

[BuzzH]

All I know is what I read; and I don't live out west so take this FWIW; but some of the more sensible things I have read mention a die off of a certain type of tree that harbored a grub that they eat; among other natural food sources also in decline. Idea there being that as they expand, there is more of them, but less historical natural foods; so they are hungry and more attracted to stock, gut piles, dumps and the like.

Within the last 150 yrs, it seems a consensus of most folks that lived by them in the intermountain west felt pretty intent on exterminating them. Not saying that I agree that was the right thing to do, but there was a motivation there among a significant number of the residents.

It seems there is a situation now where an appreciable number of these grizzly bears in these recovered and expansion areas are getting road killed and euthanized without any sanctioned hunting season, due to human conflict; further complicating using hunting as a management tool. I don't have a solution or know what is best.

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I haven't heard of the food source you're talking about...

But, there is no question that the huge reductions in anadromous fish returning to the upper reaches of the Lochsa had a significant impact. The reduction in those fish was a direct result of dams on the Columbia and Snake Rivers.

Whitebark pine has been an issue that has been studied as another significant reduction in an important food source. That's been caused from white pine blister rust and pine beetle infestations.

All through the 1990's there was a significant push to reintroduce grizzlies into the Bitterroots. Then Montana State Senator, Conrad Burns, was vehemently opposed to reintroduction. He got congressional funding to do research regarding the quality of habitat in the 'root and then hand picked his "researchers". He was convinced, with all his experience with grizzlies (I guess from his vast grizzly experience in his native Missouri), that the habitat in the 'root was not very good. I cant recall the actual numbers that the leading bear experts said the habitat could support x number of bears., Burns', hand-picked researchers actually concluded that the habitat was BETTER than what the bear experts thought, and could support more bears than first thought. Of course, Burns went ballistic and called his own researchers into question and called it junk science. Funny stuff, that the Missouri Auctioneer, turned Montana Senator, would question his own guys when the science didn't prove his point.

I'm happy to see grizzlies expanding their ranges, but also smart enough to realize there are places that they aren't real compatible with human encroachment. But, the one place where they definitely are compatible, is in the Selway/Bitterroot/Lochsa/Frank Church area. I hope they establish a solid population in that country, they belong there.

 

[Prerylyon]

I misconstrued what I read about the certain pine trees in decline in parts of their former range, thinking it was grubs, instead of the pine nuts, from the whitebark pines that they ate.

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[tim]

I'm happy to see grizzlies expanding their ranges, but also smart enough to realize there are places that they aren't real compatible with human encroachment. But, the one place where they definitely are compatible, is in the Selway/Bitterroot/Lochsa/Frank Church area. I hope they establish a solid population in that country, they belong there.

Could you imagine how much fun a grizzly could have with 20 people on a beach on the main salmon or middle fork of the salmon in the summer time. Grizzlies there would definitely change things big time there. just like the wolf, though they will expand there in time. Maybe not our lifetime, but in time.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

This is an interesting one. I personally hope that states are allowed to manage these bears as they see fit that way the people in places like Montana and Wyoming can have a say in this. Maybe Montanans want bears in much of the Western part of the state, maybe the same in Wyoming with bears occasionally making their way to places like the Black Hills, Colorado, Utah, etc... But IMO this should be decided by the people who live there. I personally doubt people in the Black Hills really want grizly bears running around chewing on people. I know I personally do not want them roaming around places like the snowies. Just because griz used to live in most of the Western half of US and even Mexico does not mean we need them back in those places.

The real interesting part will be Bozeman as that is a good sized town that is going to be right in the middle of all this as the population grows.

 

[kidoggy]

Could you imagine how much fun a grizzly could have with 20 people on a beach on the main salmon or middle fork of the salmon in the summer time. Grizzlies there would definitely change things big time there. just like the wolf, though they will expand there in time. Maybe not our lifetime, but in time.

already have grizz attacking humans, but the antis don't care anything about the lives of those of their own species..


the gods honest truth is, they care nothing about the fate of the grizz either.


like the wolf the grizz is just a means to an end .
the end being the the second being overturned . easiest way to control the masses is strip their ability to appose.

 

[kidoggy]

This is an interesting one. I personally hope that states are allowed to manage these bears as they see fit that way the people in places like Montana and Wyoming can have a say in this. Maybe Montanans want bears in much of the Western part of the state, maybe the same in Wyoming with bears occasionally making their way to places like the Black Hills, Colorado, Utah, etc... But IMO this should be decided by the people who live there. I personally doubt people in the Black Hills really want grizly bears running around chewing on people. I know I personally do not want them roaming around places like the snowies. Just because griz used to live in most of the Western half of US and even Mexico does not mean we need them back in those places.

The real interesting part will be Bozeman as that is a good sized town that is going to be right in the middle of all this as the population grows.

I hope so to but it ain't gonna happen.



t-rex once roamed the west also and I for one am giddy that they are all daid!

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

I hope so to but it ain't gonna happen.



t-rex once roamed the west also and I for one am giddy that they are all daid!

I believe it will happen in time, much like it did for wolves. Once states are allowed to manage them it will be a blend of science and public opinion that guides decisions. I'm fine with bears in and around the park, but I certainly don't think the people of Cody want them hanging out at DQ like they were this year. Or in the kids Halloween corn maze which was also the case in Cody.

It's very interesting to step back and realize several generations ago these predators like black bear/griz/lions/wolves were pushed out of most of the US and now we are at a time when predators have come full circle and we see healthy populations of everything from bears, wolves, lions, and coyotes in much of the the country. There was even a bear attack in Florida recently. Wolves in the great lakes are healthy and hunters are struggling to meet quotas in some places, lions in places like Nebraska are out of control due to seasons being shut down. It seems like our predator management skills went away as the predators were gone for the most part but suddenly they are back in force and our management skills as well as courts are challenging our ability to keep predator populations in check.

I was reading an article about bears the other day and it say there had been nearly 40 griz killed in Wyoming so far this year just from attacks, problem bears at campgrounds, etc. I had no idea it was that bad. https://northfortynews.com/2018-grizzly-bear-deaths-at-record-breaking-pace/

Look at the black hills and they are taking around 100 lions out of there per year. And they are getting occasional wolves from both directions in South Dakota. And black bears are just coming back into the hills. 20 years ago was much different, as is the case in parts of Wyoming, Montana, etc...

Hopefully management will be allowed to catch up quickly.

 

[kidoggy]

I believe it will happen in time, much like it did for wolves. Once states are allowed to manage them it will be a blend of science and public opinion that guides decisions. I'm fine with bears in and around the park, but I certainly don't think the people of Cody want them hanging out at DQ like they were this year. Or in the kids Halloween corn maze which was also the case in Cody.

It's very interesting to step back and realize several generations ago these predators like black bear/griz/lions/wolves were pushed out of most of the US and now we are at a time when predators have come full circle and we see healthy populations of everything from bears, wolves, lions, and coyotes in much of the the country. There was even a bear attack in Florida recently. Wolves in the great lakes are healthy and hunters are struggling to meet quotas in some places, lions in places like Nebraska are out of control due to seasons being shut down. It seems like our predator management skills went away as the predators were gone for the most part but suddenly they are back in force and our management skills as well as courts are challenging our ability to keep predator populations in check.

I was reading an article about bears the other day and it say there had been nearly 40 griz killed in Wyoming so far this year just from attacks, problem bears at campgrounds, etc. I had no idea it was that bad. https://northfortynews.com/2018-grizzly-bear-deaths-at-record-breaking-pace/

Look at the black hills and they are taking around 100 lions out of there per year. And they are getting occasional wolves from both directions in South Dakota. And black bears are just coming back into the hills. 20 years ago was much different, as is the case in parts of Wyoming, Montana, etc...

Hopefully management will be allowed to catch up quickly.

it is not our management skills that are lacking it is common sense that is lacking and tying the hands of those who could and would control them. common sense will NOT return until many are bear poop

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

it is not our management skills that are lacking it is common sense that is lacking and tying the hands of those who could and would control them. common sense will NOT return until many are bear poop

It actually is at least partially about management skills. We simply forgot how to manage predators for a while and are now being forced to deal with new predators in places they have not been before and numbers like we have never seen. This isn't just about bears, but also lions, wolves, coyotes, etc.. There used to be few wolves in the US, now they have populations from the great lakes to Mexico with sightings in places like Iowa, Kansas, South Dakota, etc... That all happened in the last 20 years. Even Coyote populations are booming recently as more are living in urban areas where they are not harassed like they can be in rural areas.

Predators have risen in numbers substantially the last 2 decades and it's time our game managers catch up. I understand they are somewhat hindered on griz but the other species like black bear, lions, wolves, and coyotes are within their control for the most part so they have nobody but themselves to blame.