Colorado P & W seeks to raise all fees

[Joe Schmo]

Raise em. If we hunters don?t support our state game agencies who will? Also if people are willing to spend $248 on pants or $100 on a web app that gives you the same info as state websites they should be more than willing to kick down another handful of dollars on a license/tag. But that?s just my opinion man...

 

[nv-hunter]

Personally these orv stickers are bs have to pay for a permit that only funds enforcement of having a permit. We already pay to use our forests. Nv has a system and I haven't and won't buy another sticker. Had one for a year then they wanted to fine me for not renewing on time even though my side by side never left the ranch. Fine was as much as the sticker then to find out local wardens won't enforce it as they have better things to do. Our legislator didnt put in place a way to actually spend this money and it would cost more to set up then they had received as of last year. Hear Vegas is getting some of it for atv areas now and no plans for anywhere else in the state.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Have you set up a account with CP&W to apply for tags? For some reason I am sure that you have. Just go into the buy and apply and log into your account then go from there.

It sounds like the person that you talked to had no idea of what needs to be done, but I could be wrong.

I have an account. But in past years when I ordered online, it took several weeks to get the sticker in the mail. So I was hoping to walk into a place where I could get one immediately. The lady at CP&W in Fort Collins said they would have them "any day now". She also said, I don't need to register...just buy a sticker.

 

[JimP]

Ya, after I posted my response to you I went and took a look at it. I guess that if you register it they will send you a renewal in February and if you just purchase the sticker they won't

What kind of info do they want for the sticker if any?

I do this for Utah every year and it is just a sticker with the application form that I fill out on line. Hopefully I'll have to do it for Wyoming this coming fall.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

What kind of info do they want for the sticker if any?

For a sticker, they don't need any information...other than do you have $25?

We always buy a Colorado sticker, because we hunt in Wyoming close to the Colorado border and often want to go riding on the Colorado side. We seem to get a different story about the sticker every year. Two years ago, we walked into an ATV dealership in Fort Collins and bought a sticker without registration. Last year we went to a different ATV dealership and they insisted I needed to register and there was no such thing as just a sticker (didn't have the VIN with me, so that was annoying). It is crazy and frustrating system!

By the way, in my many years of riding in Colorado I have never been checked by anyone. So I could probably get by without a permit...but I'm trying to be honest...but they don't make it easy. Now they have greatly cut down on the number of selling agents.

 

[Centennial]

Directly from the program mangers at CPW

I will leave the specific names of the people I talked to out of an online discussion. That said, I started this by calling the number listed on the CPW OHV registration page.

Regarding permits. The lady at registration was very clear. If you want to drive on a trail, you need a permit regardless of vehicle type; jeep, pickup, Hummer, ATV, Motorcycle, Duce and a half, Ferrari, it doesn?t matter. There was no wiggle room in her mind regarding type of vehicle, its all location, location, location. When I asked where I might find the list of trails requiring a permit, she couldn?t answer because she only issues licenses/permits and referred me to the trails person.

The trails person re-affirmed that if you wanted to use your vehicle on Forest Service trails, you need a permit. When asked, she could not direct me to a list of trails implying it was a Forest Service issue. When I explained that the Forest Service maps indicate roads where the Stay the Trails site indicates trails, its very confusing. Not to mention that CPW, who would issue me a ticket, cant tell me what trails we are talking about. She agreed that there is some confusion about the definition of trail v road and completely understood where I was coming from. She continued to explain that they (CPW) are kind of stuck trying to please everyone. The following are my words, not hers but in essence some people don?t want anyone driving anything in the forest, some ATV riders don?t want Jeeps, some Jeepers don?t want ATVs, some mountain bikers don?t want horses or motorized vehicles, some horse riders don?t want ATVs, and some people don?t like anything?and on and on. It was a pleasant conversation and she helped as much as she could but ultimately referred me to the OHV program manager for clarification on trails v roads etc. I am waiting to hear back and will let you know when I do.

Heres the confusion.
Using Hancock pass as an example. The San Isabel National forest map published by the Dept of Agriculture identifies Hancock pass as 266 in a red box. The key of the map defines that as a ?low standard forest road?. Additionally, the tack of the road is intermittent parallel lines defined in the key as ?unimproved road and 4WD?. Trails are clearly marked differently on this map. Hancock pass is listed on the Stay the Trails site, Colorado full sized trails link, as one that requires an additional permit. They ID it as ?Hancock Pass Jeep Trail #9266?.

More to follow but if it turns out that there is a charge to use these forest roads, im certain that the list of roads will grow in the future.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

When I talked to the guy who supposedly knew more than anyone else about off road, jeep road, trails & FS roads, I asked specifically about trails vs 4wd & jeep roads. Like you said it is all up to the FS how they label their maps. There are lots of roads (not trails) labeled 4wd. These are roads ...not trails. No sticker required for plated vehicles. Plated vehicles are not allowed on trails, except for motorcycles. Motorcycle are allowed on some trails and will need a state sticker regardless if they are plated or no. A quad or utv needs to have a state sticker on all NF or BLM roads if it is not plated.

 

[JimP]

It has come down to the point that if you plan on riding a OHV on Forest Service lands go to the local Forest Service office in the area that you plan on riding in and get a map. This map will tell you where you can and can't ride. It will show what vehicles are allowed on the road and or trails. Also usually there is a map on a board at each trail head that will show you whats what. That is if it hasn't been shot to pieces by some jerk wagon.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Yep that's the bottom line. I would suggest anyone hunting or using NF (and BLM too) get their publication on off travel management. If your map is more than a couple of years old, a new map would be advisable. Here in the SW part of the state all the NFs and BLM either have or in the process of updating & changing their rules for travel and their maps have been (or will be) changed to reflect these changes.

 

[Centennial]

Don't have time tonight to go into detail so more will follow tomorrow but i had a lengthy conversation with the OHV Program Manager at CPW.

This link is the ONLY source for Motor Vehicle Use on Forest Service land in Colorado. You can see the maps at the bottom of the page. The Forest Service maps published by the Unites States Dept of Agriculture that we are all familiar with are not official, not even new ones. CPW funds Stay The Trails website.

http://staythetrail.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=266593&module_id=224600

 

[JimP]

Looking at about 1/2 dozen of the maps that I know of in my area they all reflect the current travel maps that the National Forest has put out and that I have in my map collection.

The sad part are the dirt roads that are being closed to OHV and only open to licensed vehicles with no way to license a OHV here in this state. That and a problem that the Forest Service is closing off other roads to all vehicles except for Administrative vehicles only. Another one that I saw in my area is a road that was closed to all vehicles and then reopened to motorcycles and not ATV's. This was after motorcycle riders had created a few illegal trails in the area that were accessed off of the closed road.

Sometimes it just makes you wonder why.

 

[Centennial]

The list of 60 full size trails on the Stay the Trail links are exactly that, full sized and anyone of us would likely call them roads, albeit rocky and bumpy roads. These roads have been in use since long before WWII and are roads that two pickup trucks could pass each other on.

These roads have been designated a trail by the Ranger District they are in, not the CPW. That is why some change status between Forest boundaries and similar roads in other areas are not on this list...yet. These 60 full size trails are open to anyone who wants to purchase the pass for $25.25 from the CPW but a pass is required. I was told that the Mile High Jeep club purchases 700 passes per year for it's members. It's a user fee, plain and simple.

Legal authority is Colorado Revised Statutes Title 33 Article 14. I have not gotten to the part where the state can charge a user fee on federal land nor was the manager able to cite the Federal regulation but it's certainly there someplace. Title 33 is 200 pages long. Even talking to the program manager and SME, there was much confusion and he admitted that many CPW employees don't understand these rules. I recommended that CPW link the Stay the Trails site to the OHV pages since the CPW pays for the Stay the Trails site. A simple paragraph explaining how all of this worked would go a long way to educating the public. Still, my military mind keeps saying "why aren't they openly promoting, educating, and advertising this? There must be something to it".

Anyway, we have drifted from the original topic which is CPW raising fees. While this isn't raising a fee this year, it's certainly collecting a fee on top of the Federal, State, Local taxes, fuel taxes, as well as the cost of licensing vehicles and purchasing hunting/fishing licenses. All just to access your land.