Colorado P & W seeks to raise all fees

[Colorado Cowboy]

Something strange here. I checked the actual language the state senate had in the bill they approved and it is essentially the same for NR big game as in place now. The only difference is Bear which is $660 for NR in the bill which is different from this years fee which is $351.

 

[JimP]

The non resident fees had gone up a couple of times with out the resident fees raising. I think that it was last year that they were talking about just raising the resident fees in the bill, and this bill reflects that.

 

[graybird]

Everyone had to see this coming after the merge of Parks Division with DOW from a few years ago. Take a failing division operating in the red and merge with a thriving division operating in the black yearly and boom, now both divisions are in the red. Only way to fix it in their eyes is to increase hunting/fishing license fees. They need to raise the Park fees to where they are self sufficient instead of putting all of the burden on the hunting/fishing community.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

They are raising ALL fees...including Parks.

I think I know where the problem is with the NR Elk fees. Colorado sets their fee structure in 5 year increments. The one in place expires after this year. I think I remember raising the NR Elk fee for 2018 when they set the last fee structure for 2014 thru 2018. So if that is right, the elk fee for NRs will be about the same next year as it is for 2018.

 

[Centennial]

Here's an excerpt from an email that I received. Can this be right? I guess the Colo house Appropriations is voting on this tomorrow; last vote before it goes to the Gov.


Dear esteemed members of the Colorado House Appropriations Committee,

Please do not support or vote to pass SB18-143, the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Future Generations Act.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW) has a permanent long term funding solution in the form of license sales and Pitman Robertson tax fees and in essence, has a monopoly over sportsman who wish to enjoy Colorado. CPW needs to learn to live within it’s means as all of us do before they are given a blank check.

In 1983, a deer license cost $13. Today after gimmick “pay to play” practices (application fees, habitat stamps, search and rescue fee, and education fund), and license fee increases already passed, the same deer license costs $44.75; a 244% increase. If the hunter wanted a preference point and didn’t have a deer license or annual fishing license from last year, the cost is $84.75 or a 522% increase. I find it somewhat disturbing that the CPW perspective and lobby effort towards the elected legislature is “that’s not enough, we need more”.

Additionally, the CPW is now charging license-plated vehicles, pickup trucks and jeeps etc, a fee to travel some roads on U.S. Dept. of Agriculture property; Federal property that belongs to all U.S. residents and is paid for through Federal taxes. These roads are often used to access hunting areas…another gimmick and fee on top of the absurd license increases.

With respect to hunting/fishing, CPW doesn’t manage any more hectares of habitat, significantly greater numbers of animals, or miles of streams than they did 30 years ago. They have however grown significantly in programs that are not self-sustaining, number of employees, and support luxuries. By their own admission, CPW has not managed their finances well resulting in and these “revenue challenges” as they put it. Why would I as a taxpayer, sportsman, and voter want to give more money to an irresponsible Enterprise with no limitations on how its spent?

The Colorado Parks and Wildlife is abjectly out of control with respect to self and money.

Show your support for the sportsmen, voters, and residents of Colorado by voting no and sending this bill back. Please ensure that any future bills contain constraints on how this Enterprise spends and not just how it receives it’s funding.

 

[Alabama]

$13 in 1983 would be about $32 today ($31.95 in 2017 dollars). License cost at $44.75 is a 39.8% increase in 35 years. I'm not saying I support it but it's not as unreasonable as the email suggests.

graybird hit the nail on the head with his post. They want hunters and fisherman to shoulder the burden for parks because their revenue stream is insufficient there.

 

[nv-hunter]

What the he'll paying extra to drive on forest service roads. Co isnt the land ower cant charge crap for that is be talking to my senators in Washington.

 

[JimP]

Additionally, the CPW is now charging license-plated vehicles, pickup trucks and jeeps etc, a fee to travel some roads on U.S. Dept. of Agriculture property; Federal property that belongs to all U.S. residents and is paid for through Federal taxes. These roads are often used to access hunting areas…another gimmick and fee on top of the absurd license increases.

.

This is the first time that I have heard of this. Where it this happening?

 

[Centennial]

Yeah, I was more than a little surprised about the trail thing but it looks to be legit. Here is the link to the CPW, It says "Colorado residents with PLATED VEHICLES (off road + street legal vehicles, including motorcycles) are required to purchase a permit."
http://cpw.state.co.us/buyapply/Pages/RegistrationsOHV.aspx

What I cant find on the CPW website is a list of "trails". I did come across a list on Stay the Trails and some are not "trails", but popular jeeping roads and access to higher elevation hunting. In fact, many on the list are designated as FS roads. The page refers to the CPW requirement with a link. Stay the Trails site says "This $25.25 permit must be displayed on any full size vehicle traveling these trails even if that vehicle has a currently registered license plate from Colorado or any other state."
http://staythetrail.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=266593&module_id=247561

Does this lack of notification make licensed vehicles an easy pick for a CPW ticket...on Federal land? I guess it is if "ignorance of the law is no excuse". This is a little out of control I think.

 

[JimP]

I believe that is just talking about motorcycles that are registered for the street riding on single track and trails that are intended for 3 and 4 wheel ATV's in the hills where they require a off road permit.

It also would apply to vehicles such as side by sides and ATV's that are registered to be street legal in another state.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I believe that is just talking about motorcycles that are registered for the street riding on single track and trails that are intended for 3 and 4 wheel ATV's in the hills where they require a off road permit.

It also would apply to vehicles such as side by sides and ATV's that are registered to be street legal in another state.

I think your right. They might be trying to get ahead of the curve, especially with the UTV's (s x s). More & more states and counties are licensing them with plates as lots of them are street legal now. Always applied to motorcycles that are plated as the Forest Service allows them to be used on some trails and they do also need a state offroad sticker.

 

[Centennial]

JimP, I would like to believe that you are right. But as it's written, i don't believe the CPW is making that distinction. They bold PLATED VEHICLES as if to say "they are all in the same set irrelevant of size primary use etc". In parentheses, they clearly distinguish that they are not juts talking about motorcycles or off road vehicles, they spell out street legal. Stay the trails site, in multiple places, clearly lists "full size".

Regardless of all of the above. If you have paid your fee to put Colorado plates on your street legal vehicle, why are you being charged again? Especially in CO where the license plate fee is exorbitant compared to many other states.

CPW has lost my trust. After watching them evolve the last 25 years, i have come to the conclusion that they are big business living in the paradigm "whats good for me is good for CO".

 

[JimP]

There are trails here in Colorado that are only for off road type vehicles narrower than 50" I believe, it could be 52". On those trails you need a OHV sticker from CP&W not just a license plate from the state that you are from. I believe that this is what they are addressing.

How they have it stated in that one paragraph could be a lot clearer in the definition of what is required.

There are areas here in Colorado that even the OHV sticker doesn't work on a ATV. The Forest Service and counties have teamed up in restricting travel on them by anything but a state licensed and registered vehicle. Some are total bans of ATV's while others are time restrictions for vehicles that are not licensed.

I just wished that Colorado would get with it and allow us to register our ATV's with the state and given license plates much like some motorcycles that are mostly off road only vehicles. It doesn't take much to make a ATV street legal.

 

[Centennial]

Jim, I cant speak to all of the trails but i have been over half a dozen of the ones on this list and they are Forest Service roads that are very popular with the Jeep and 4X4 clubs, Tomichi and Hancock are good examples. I am aware of the "ATV only" trials with width limits and limits on ATV use/restrictions on other roads. These arent narrow ATV trails, they are full sized roads and part of the USFS system.

https://www.trailsoffroad.com/trails/1082-hancock-pass
https://www.jeeptheusa.com/hancock-pass-25.html
http://www.jeepingoffroad.com/driveabouts/colorado-2014/alpine-tunnel-trail-and.html

You're right, it's not clear and that is a real problem because anyone inclined to issue you a ticket wont care if you are confused, or it's not clear, or you didnt stop to read the kaleidoscope patchwork of signage on a road you have been using all of your life. You, are getting the ticket and either sucking it up or fighting it in court...both will likely have the same end result.

The way i see this, the CPW has decided/granted legal authority that some forest service roads are now part of the CPW recreational infrastructure and there will be a user fee above and beyond what we already pay. Im guessing the CPW will expand this list in the future.

 

[JimP]

I just read it differently that what you are reading.

As I mentioned there are a lot of states out there that are registering side by sides and ATV's for the highways. They pay taxes and registration fees on them and you can see them zipping down the pavement in those states.

From what I read CP&W is just making sure that those vehicles purchase the Colorado OHV permit before riding on any of the trails here in the state. Some owners in the other states may think that just because they have a registered and license machine that they can ride on the Colorado trails without the OHV sticker.

You can take Arizona as a good example. All the ATV's, 3 and 4 wheelers along with side by sides must be registered with the state and are issued a metal license that must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. They must also purchase a "off road" sticker if they plan on taking them out into the dirt.

You might be able to clear up your questions on this subject with a trip down to your CP&W office. I wouldn't call but go down.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Man what a confusing set of instructions on the P & W website. I talked to someone in Denver HQ who knew less than I did!!! Finally got a guy in Durango who knew what he was talking about. A street legal, plated 4x4 that is used on FS roads & trails (as listed on their maps), does not need a OHV permit. Street legal, plated motorcycles that go on FS trails do. Non street legal vehicles (utv, quad, motorcycle, rock crawler, etc) that use FS roads, trails; BLM roads, trails does need a state OHV permit. The "puke green" license are for Non Resident OHV use.

 

[JimP]

My OHV tag is a darker green than the puke green that everything else that I am getting from them is.

So far my small game/fishing, turkey tag, and state parks pass is the puke green.

Perhaps it has something to do with purchasing all my items on line instead of going down to a dealer who might still have a good supply of the blue tags.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

To add to the confusion...I recently called the CP&W office in Fort Collins and asked what I needed to do to get a nonresident permit for my side by side. I was told I have two choices: I can buy a $25 permit (sticker) without registering the machine, or I can register the machine if I prefer. Each way would cost $25.

I'm not sure why a nonresident would choose to register a machine which requires a VIN and proof of ownership, when a simple permit will do the trick (no VIN or other information required)...they don't even seem to care what machine you put it on. It's like buying a duck stamp.

In any case, they didn't have any permits yet...even though the old ones expired March 31st. They expect the new ones any day now.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

My OHV tag is a darker green than the puke green that everything else that I am getting from them is.

So far my small game/fishing, turkey tag, and state parks pass is the puke green.

Perhaps it has something to do with purchasing all my items on line instead of going down to a dealer who might still have a good supply of the blue tags.

My new fishing license is puke green!

 

[JimP]

To add to the confusion...I recently called the CP&W office in Fort Collins and asked what I needed to do to get a nonresident permit for my side by side. I was told I have two choices: I can buy a $25 permit (sticker) without registering the machine, or I can register the machine if I prefer. Each way would cost $25.

I'm not sure why a nonresident would choose to register a machine which requires a VIN and proof of ownership, when a simple permit will do the trick (no VIN or other information required)...they don't even seem to care what machine you put it on. It's like buying a duck stamp.

In any case, they didn't have any permits yet...even though the old ones expired March 31st. They expect the new ones any day now.

Have you set up a account with CP&W to apply for tags? For some reason I am sure that you have. Just go into the buy and apply and log into your account then go from there.

It sounds like the person that you talked to had no idea of what needs to be done, but I could be wrong.