Can ANYONE explain points for the NR in English?

[3darcher2]

Hi everyone, I have been an Eastman's forum lurker on and off for probably 3 years now but I finally joined a few days ago and threw up my new member intro in that section.

After debating between another elk hunt and a mulie hunt, I think I am leaning towards a mulie trip to get my feet wet in 2017. Right now I have zero points anywhere and I am from PA. I have no partner as of now.

At 52, I still have some time to get some good hunting in but time is a wasting, so it is time to get after it. My goal for the first time around would be mulie with a rifle. While I don't need a back country pack-in, I don't want to hunt in open country/prairie with trucks parading by every 5 minutes. I'd like to be in some trees and some hills - motel or camp is OK.

Right now, I am just trying to decipher this draw process to figure out the difference between all the licenses. I understand the region and area tags, I get the wilderness deal, the special, but I don't get how to tell how many licenses of each type there are and how to get a tag while not using up my points. For instance, if I am trying to save up for some hard to draw area that typically needs 5 points, how do I get a "lesser" tag and which draw odds am I looking at to see what those chances are? For instance, there is NR Random, NR Random Special, NR Preference Points, and NR Preference Point Special. Help!

Oh yeah, while I am at it, it seems that conventional wisdom says buy deer and elk point for WY and CO...sound right?

 

[WapitiBob]

Look at the random draw odds for both regular and special. Take the quota for a given hunt and subtract the 1st choice apps from it. Then compare that remainder to the 2nd choice apps. That will give you your odds to draw as a 2nd choice.

 

[3darcher2]

Thsnks WB....And a second choice does not forfeit your points, right? Where do PPs come in?

 

[LaHunter]

In WY, if you draw your first choice, your points are zeroed, and you can not buy a point that year for the species that you drew a tag for. So the next year, you go into the draw with zero points.

 

[Tim McCoy]

WY reserves a portion of their tags for the highest preference point holders, 75% of the tags are allocated to those with the most points. The rest are placed in a random draw. Preference points give preference, or a tag, to the highest point holders. This is different than a pure bonus point system, which does not guarantee a tag, but does give more chances for a tag for higher point holders.

 

[Musket Man]

You will only use your points if you draw your 1st choice. You will not loose your points if you draw 2nd choice.

 

[3darcher2]

OK thanks everyone. 75% for PP was one of my missing variables. I still can't figure out how to determine the actual allotment of each. When I look at the quota and the actual draw statistics and harvest numbers for an area, I can't tell how they add up.

Also, is there some ratio between special and regular within PP and random?

 

[Hilltop]

OK thanks everyone. 75% for PP was one of my missing variables. I still can't figure out how to determine the actual allotment of each. When I look at the quota and the actual draw statistics and harvest numbers for an area, I can't tell how they add up.

Also, is there some ratio between special and regular within PP and random?

3d, this years quotas for each area won't be released until after you apply so you are really guessing by going off of previous years numbers- no reason to rack your brain on how they are divided. A person can add up the different numbers of tags in the drawings to get an idea but if I am reading you correctly, your only interested in 2nd choice tags while you build PP. For this you will only need to look at the NR regular draw. Look at areas that were easy to draw with 2nd choice and you will have an idea what is possible next fall.

 

[ssliger]

Another thing you could do is do a search of threads about PP's for Wyoming on this forum. Wapitibob has broken it down numerous times on the exact process which tags are allocated. The guy has studied it a lot and knows his stuff. Like said above if you only want to draw on a second choice just look at the NR random draw, any area that has a quota higher than 1st choice applicants, you will have a chance. You will gain a point and not loose any drawing your second choice. Good luck

 

[3darcher2]

Yes, it is sort of coming together in my clump of gray matter. Not totally, but it's getting there.

Seems like getting a Region tag on a second choice is a sure thing in the right Regions. Do that, build points, and decide where to spend them when the time comes.

PS...No matter what forum, seems I can never find what I am trying to find with search, but I will keep on looking!

 

[Zim]

OK thanks everyone. 75% for PP was one of my missing variables. I still can't figure out how to determine the actual allotment of each. When I look at the quota and the actual draw statistics and harvest numbers for an area, I can't tell how they add up.

Also, is there some ratio between special and regular within PP and random?

I don't believe for a minute this 75/25 split will last for long. The states' trend is now to throw the most invested sportsmen under the bus in favor of fresh money. So as you buy your points be aware WY will eventually go to 50/50 then 25/75 then one preference tag and the rest bonus. Because that's what states do for free money. It's all about bait-n-switch.

 

[Tim McCoy]

Zim makes a great point. When I started buying points in WY, it was $7.50 a species or so as I recall. Bought them for me and my entire family. We had a bunch of points and then the cost went up tremendously. We stopped buying Sheep and Moose points for all but me and my oldest son. Now sheep points are $100, Moose $75, Elk $50... We drew sheep and two moose tags and have not started back in WY with points for those species. The odds were simply not in our favor for the cost at my age. I do wonder about states very dependent on revenue from NR's, at what point will rapidly escalating costs and falling odds backfire and lead to less participation and a revenue drop.

 

[3darcher2]

Thanks for that insight.

When I first started going to Iowa for whitetail in 2000, I think points were about $10 and NR license was about $300. About 6 years ago points went to $50 and licenses went over $400, plus as a NR you are REQUIRED to buy an antlerless license for another $100+, so it's around $550 to hunt whitetail in IA. They simply realized there was more money to be had and licenses still sell out. I stay with a friend there which helps to mitigate a pricey midwest hunt.

My longterm goal is to simply get a chance to hunt every other year or so and once in a while get a chance to get in a really great unit. As long as I am hunting somewhere where I am seeing game and have a decent chance at a 140-150 mulie, I will be a happy camper. There's no hunting I'd rather do right now than stand in an IA treestand on a November morning. Hopefully I'll get a taste of western mulie hunting and the IA thing will fall to second place.

 

[Tim McCoy]

If that your goal, I'd give some thought to buying CO and/or WY points, and hunting MT where you can get a deer tag every year, as long as demand stays where it is. Scratch the itch in MT for a few hunts, get some experience, buy some points elsewhere and when you have a few points chase after a larger one in CO/WY, then back to MT, buy points again, try WY/CO, rinse, wash and repeat. All that said, while you can get very good mulies in MT, you probably have a better chance in WY or CO, and better yet, both. I'd think you can accomplish what you seek with a 2 or 3 state strategy, 3 probably would work better, without breaking the bank. There are a number of other states you could insert, but a multi state strategy will serve you well. Opportunity hunts/states and a better quality hunt/state...

 

[Musket Man]

60% go into the regular draw and 40% into the special draw. Then 75% of the tags in each draw go to the applicants with the most points. The other 25% go into the random draw. If there are tags left from the PP draw they go into the random draw also. The MRS gives total quotas for each region and unit. It costs alot more but there are alot of tags you can draw 2nd choice in the special draw that you cant draw 2nd choice in the regular draw. Deer points are not worth alot for LE units rightnow and IMO you would be better off useing your point to hunt a region that takes 1 point in 2017 then drawing 2nd choice and saving them.

 

[3darcher2]

Double M, I appreciate your efforts in helping me. It is making sense now.

Realistically, over the next 10-12 years, I'll be working and will be hard pressed to make more than one out of state trip. Since I can pull IA archery every other year, at least now, I'd say that means I'd be headed west every other year also. I'd like to hunt mulies and elk, but want to start with mulies.

Having a better handle on things, I'd say it is possible for me to start deer hunting in 2017 and getting points beginning this year. So I could have 1 MD PP in 2017. I could alternate and try for elk in 2019 with 3 PP. Then MD again in 2021 with 3 PP, and so on. I guess a perfect situation would be to find an area that would allow me to hunt elk and mulies in the same general area and allow me to learn the area over time cumulatively. Of course I'd need to be able to draw in these areas every 4 years per species. While no one wants to pay for special, I'd figure that might be doable to keep me on schedule.

Tell me I am on the right track or tell me I'm nuts. Either way is OK, just let me know. I might try picking up PPs in CO or somewhere else in the meantime for a long term option.


Maybe someplace l

60% go into the regular draw and 40% into the special draw. Then 75% of the tags in each draw go to the applicants with the most points. The other 25% go into the random draw. If there are tags left from the PP draw they go into the random draw also. The MRS gives total quotas for each region and unit. It costs alot more but there are alot of tags you can draw 2nd choice in the special draw that you cant draw 2nd choice in the regular draw. Deer points are not worth alot for LE units rightnow and IMO you would be better off useing your point to hunt a region that takes 1 point in 2017 then drawing 2nd choice and saving them.

 

[Musket Man]

I think you have a good plan trying to hunt the same area and getting to know it. There are some areas you can hunt deer and elk on something like the schedule you mentioned. Hopefully the rest of the winter and spring are good to the deer and things will be looking better for 2017!