shootbrownelk
Veteran member
I'm sorry if I implied that most outfitters do unlawful practices....I'm sure that many don't. Just repeating what I read about some that do. Certainly wasn't referring to you.
Baiting elk...
- Thread starter ivorytip
- Start date
mntnguide
Very Active Member
No worries..i overreact when it comes to defending the outfitting industry because of the relationship I have had with it haha.
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JScams
Member
I've come across several salt blocks in NV but I just assumed it was more for the Cows than Game animals.
JimP
Administrator
If it is intended for cattle the blocks will be around a water hole out in the open and not back off of well worn trails away from water.
WyomingOverland
New Member
- Sep 5, 2017
- 8
- 0
Seems like the "outfitters" use a lot of "unethical" ways to boost their revenue. Last year a group of hunters in the copper mtn area watched a small yellow aircraft herd a group of elk off of public land on to private property.
Unfortunately, that behavior is not specific to just outfitters. Private land owners are known to do that type of thing too. As with absolutely ALL industries, outfitters have good ones and bad ones. I know both types. Without personally knowing "mntnguide" but based on reading his posts, I would put money on him being a really good one.
I would say that most of the outfitters that i know are really great, and I know quite a few of them.
A picture by itself isn't enough to convict. All the guy has to say is that he was putting the salt in place for cattle, the picture only shows that he placed a salt block, not why he did it or if he used it to harvest elk. The picture would have to show that he placed the salt block to attract elk, that he sat in an ambush site watching the salt block, that he helped sombody harvest an elk while it was eating the salt block, and that he typically only guided hunters to the salt block and not other places. That's an impossible string of evidence to be gleaned from a game camera picture. Game and Fish officials can write all the tickets that they want but when an accused goes to court he can make a resonable case in his defense and if the procesution can't answer all of the questions that the judge is going to ask then the accused will go free and authorities will have all the court costs and nothing to show for their efforts.
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Not where I live. The cattle are released on federally controlled lands and the ranchers will place salt blocks where they believe that the cattle will be (over a few decades they've pretty well figured out where their cattle like to spend their time). I've seen blocks out in the middle of nowhere after hiking in on a vague game trail and found salt blocks and a half dozen or so cattle. There was water close by (several springs about a half mile away on either side of the salt) but the salt was placed where the cattle were grazing, not watering.
Like anything, the few , taint the majority.
My first response when I read the op's post was,
"Why would anyone want too?"
I love the wild places elk make you go to hunt them.
The sights, sounds and smells of elk camp draw me.
IMHO, you cheat yourself when you bait.
My first response when I read the op's post was,
"Why would anyone want too?"
I love the wild places elk make you go to hunt them.
The sights, sounds and smells of elk camp draw me.
IMHO, you cheat yourself when you bait.
I feel the same, while at the same time not hating on those that do where legal. some have told me that it is no different than sitting on a wallow or near a known feeding area. but it is so very different, as in it is natural. but this is how I grew up, if I lived in Oregon I am sure id be doing it differently.
mntnguide
Very Active Member
Look at social media currently...Every Flat Brim BRO in Utah goes out of there way to promote their use of Critter lick or trophy rock. Cause in Utah it isnt illegal. Look at Tines Up, They kill big bucks and bulls every year, pick up monster sheds, and use hundreds of trail cameras all year, and look at almost every damn picture of a monster they have, the head is down licking the ground. I personally believe the use of that type of attractants should be beyond illegal in all states, but most of all should disqualify any trophy from entering record books. Boone and Crockett rely on fair chase ethical hunting, how is it fair chase and ethical if you introduce a substance into an environment that lacks it, which creates a reason for an animal to stay in the area if it wasnt previously. If you change the natural habitat and habits of an animal, in your favor, i do not believe that falls under fair chase. I sure wish Utah would make it illegal, and its unfortunate where some of social media is taking hunting. There is a crowd that IMO is ruining the image of hunting and influencing a new age group that will grow up thinking if you dont bait animals you will never kill big ones..very unfortunate.
Do you guys/gals support baiting bears. I don't know what states allow it but Alaska does. Baiting certainly takes some forethought and planning and can be a lot of work. It also allows for a more selective harvest of mature boars.
For ME, and my personal ethical standards, I can support taking bears over bait if it's being used as a food source, not just a trophy. I don't believe a bear taken over bait should be eligible for the record book; baiting does create an unfair advantage to the hunter.
That's also why I have always opposed baiting brown bears, which are almost always taken as trophies only. Almost no one willingly eats them. Yeah, I know, there are a few exceptions. I've eaten it, it's not good.
But it is legal in many areas up here. I don't support it, I won't do it, but as I said...that's just me and my choice of ethical standards.
For ME, and my personal ethical standards, I can support taking bears over bait if it's being used as a food source, not just a trophy. I don't believe a bear taken over bait should be eligible for the record book; baiting does create an unfair advantage to the hunter.
That's also why I have always opposed baiting brown bears, which are almost always taken as trophies only. Almost no one willingly eats them. Yeah, I know, there are a few exceptions. I've eaten it, it's not good.
But it is legal in many areas up here. I don't support it, I won't do it, but as I said...that's just me and my choice of ethical standards.
CrimsonArrow
Very Active Member
AKaviator, I'm currently baiting for bear here in Minnesota. Our bears rarely leave the dark woods, and running dogs is not allowed, so baiting is about the only way to kill a bear. Baiting deer is illegal, though, and I don't ever want to see it legalized here. I've done it in other states where it's legal, and it works some places and doesn't work elsewhere.
CrimsonArrow
Very Active Member
CrimsonArrow
Very Active Member
Okay, I'll take this one on. For the record, I am not pro-baiting. It is illegal here in Minnesota (for deer,elk, and moose), and I support heavy, crushing penalties for anybody caught doing it. For the most part, it is a lazy persons way to kill an animal. I do support baiting in areas where it is helpful as a management tool, and that probably excludes most western states. I agree that hunting shows have conned people into thinking that baiting is the answer to their hunting woes, when they just need to work harder.
JimP
Administrator
And yet thousands of hunters do it every year while sitting is a nice warm hunting blind with all the comforts of home.