7mm rem mag

[hunt4duck]

By all means I am no bullet expert and I should probably know more. I just put a new nikon prostaff 3.5 - 14 x 50 scope on my gun for more confidence in reaching out to an animal. I am wondering how far I should go for elk with a 150 gr trophy copper. I know its all about shot placement and I feel comfortable with that and would not take the shot if I did'nt feel good about it. 400 yrds gives me 1765 energy. Would you feel comfortable to 500 yrds? How far would you push it assuming you have shot that distance and feel good with it?

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

Most quality 150 grain bullets of reasonable BC out of a 7RM will do the job on an elk at 500 yards easily when placed correctly.

Shooter skill and wind will be the limiting factors.

 

[mattdeere]

By all means I am no bullet expert and I should probably know more. I just put a new nikon prostaff 3.5 - 14 x 50 scope on my gun for more confidence in reaching out to an animal. I am wondering how far I should go for elk with a 150 gr trophy copper. I know its all about shot placement and I feel comfortable with that and would not take the shot if I did'nt feel good about it. 400 yrds gives me 1765 energy. Would you feel comfortable to 500 yrds? How far would you push it assuming you have shot that distance and feel good with it?

I shoot a 7 mag with 140 grain TTSX Barnes. I would feel comfortable in its capability to kill an elk at 400 yards and beyond. Like BB said skill and ability are usually the limiting factors. Where I've hunted elk in Montana the elk are rarely in a comfortable mood and usually on the go to get away from pressure so in my experience it would be hard to get a comfortable shot on a stationary bull.

 

[hunt4duck]

Thanks for the feedback....I do feel more comfortable shooting the 7 over the 338 at a distance. I hear you on elk being jumpy and it seems that when you do see them relaxed it is at those greater distances when you have time to observe. I have a good quality hunt coming this year and am just trying to decide which to use. I think I'm just trying to hear the ability of the gun to help my confidence, I'm sure the one that got away was all my bad, just wish i knew where that bullet landed. Obviously not in the boiler.

 

[Hilltop]

The "recommended minimum energy to cleanly take an elk is listed at 1500 lbs of energy by some writers. I have seen other state that 1200lbs is enough energy. If you know your speed you can plug that into many different online ballistics calculators with your bullet weight to find energy at different ranges. I like the hornady calculator myself. It is easy to use. I have personally seen elk cleanly taken with a 7mag at different ranges. It is plenty of gun out to 500 yards in my opinion as long as the shooter does his part. As the guys above mention, the real variable is the elk and your personal shooting ability. On calm, standing still, elk I will take prone bi-pod shots out to 500 yards with my 30-06. Never had one get away... My recommendation is to practice well beyond your personal range limit for game. I shoot 7 to 800 yards in practice. It makes a 500 yard shot feel a little easier. We use milk jugs full of water set at 50 yard increments for practice- fun and challenging at super long range. Good luck and shoot straight!

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

"Minimum energy to cleanly kill" is a bunch of hooey.

Damaging vital tissue is what is needed for a quick kill. Having enough penetration and impact velocity to cause the bullet to expand is what is needed.

Add up the energy numbers for a 420 grain arrow at 230 fps impact velocity and see if it makes the arbitrary "minimum" energy numbers.

 

[Hilltop]

"Minimum energy to cleanly kill" is a bunch of hooey.

Damaging vital tissue is what is needed for a quick kill. Having enough penetration and impact velocity to cause the bullet to expand is what is needed.

Add up the energy numbers for a 420 grain arrow at 230 fps impact velocity and see if it makes the arbitrary "minimum" energy numbers.

I'll agree with you but there aren't too many other "measurable" systems to gauge your setup. Energy is required to expand the bullet and make it penetrate. The numbers I mention are the basic recommendations out there for elk. Not enough energy with a ttsx for example will cause non-expansion (according to the manufacturer) thus creating a small hole through to the stopping point- similar to shooting an elk with a field point. While it may be fatal it will take a bit longer for the elk to die creating a non-clean kill in my book and a tough tracking job. Your 420 grain arrow at 230 feet per second meets the recommended energy for archery equipment by the way. The reason it has enough energy is the broadhead cutting a big hole through the animal resulting in a clean kill if placed correctly.

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

hilltop, my response wasn't really directed at you so much as a general way of thinking about these issues. no offense intended, of course.

To further the discussion:

I'll agree with you but there aren't too many other "measurable" systems to gauge your setup.

IMO, the best measurable system is velocity. Bullet makers design their bullets for a range of impact velocities. For most hunting bullets the minimum is around 1800 fps. So my recommendation is to check your charts and when your velocity runs under 1800, that is your theoretical range limit. Your actual limit depends on skill and conditions.

Not enough energy with a ttsx for example will cause non-expansion (according to the manufacturer) thus creating a small hole through to the stopping point- similar to shooting an elk with a field point.

This is my point exactly. Even though the bullet is hitting with much more "energy" than the arrow, the tissue damage is similar, resulting in similar deaths. It is the damage that kills. A easier expanding bullet hitting at the same velocity and energy level will cause much more damage.

Your 420 grain arrow at 230 feet per second meets the recommended energy for archery equipment by the way.

Again, this supports the point. How can there be different "minimum energies" for the same animal?

I think it is more accurate to think of appropriate impact velocities for the projectile rather than some arbitrary energy minimum.

 

[Hilltop]

Exactly what I wanted to say...lol you just said it much better! I misunderstood your first message- been a long week at the desk and I'm dying to get outside.

 

[Ikeepitcold]

Thanks guys. I was just about to shut this down. Keep it positive or don't respond.

 

[DBurrr]

Put it in the pump station and a few grains won't matter.


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[hunt4duck]

Thank again guys. I have got zeroed at 200 and I absolutely agree with practice and getting comfortable with the shot. I've got a few boxes and will be heading out to practice up to and beyond 500. If I can get good groups I should get my confidence back. I am not hearing that it should not get the job done, so its just a matter of me getting it done. Practice practice practice.

 

[SansSouci]

Put it in the pump station and a few grains won't matter.


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That's the answer right there^^^

 

[SansSouci]

I have a Sako Classic AV in 7MM Rem Mag with a 4x12 Leupold Vari-X II. It will shoot ragged one-hole groups all day long. I've killed a mule deer buck at a long way...a real long way away. .284 caliber bullets are legendary for traveling a long way and penetrating very deeply. In an older Nosler manual I have, the 175 Partition has the highest BC of all Nosler bullets.

I will take my 7MM Rem Mag on an elk hunt this year. While I'll primarily use my .270 Win with 150 grain Partitions because it's 2 pounds lighter, should longer shots be be on the hunting agenda, I'll use my 7MM Rem Mag with 160 Partitions that I've chrono'd at just over 3100 FPS. Depending upon the source, it's as much as 3 grains under maximum. They're loaded with H-4831.

When I began hunting, an old timer in our party used a 7X57 for mule deer. He also had an 8X57 that he used for larger game. My dad began big game hunting in the 30's. He told me that the then .300 was the .300 Savage. He used a Model 81 in .35 Rem. He used it in Eastern Canada with success. He even killed mule deer in Utah with it.

To my way of looking at killing big game, biology is always controlling. Nothing lives more than seconds sans its heart and/or lungs. As long as I'm able to stop oxygenated blood flow to a bull's brain, it will die. If I put a .270 Win bullet or a 7MM Rem Mag bullet where it needs to be, my guide and I will be in for a whole lot of work. If I don't put a bullet where it needs to be, after the hard work is done my guide will probably make me walk back to camp without lunch.

I wonder how many elk, moose, and bear our northern neighbors killed with surplus .303 British rifles.

 

[SansSouci]

"Minimum energy to cleanly kill" is a bunch of hooey.

Damaging vital tissue is what is needed for a quick kill. Having enough penetration and impact velocity to cause the bullet to expand is what is needed.

Add up the energy numbers for a 420 grain arrow at 230 fps impact velocity and see if it makes the arbitrary "minimum" energy numbers.

More great stuff right there^^^