.280 REM Velocity: 160gr, 22" Brl ?

[Prerylyon]

Wondering if anyone has experience on what a safe, upper limit is on velocity out my .280 REM model 70 with a 22" barrel pushing a 160 gr bullet?

A Sierra reloading flyer for .280 REM lists max velos of 2,700 fps in their tests for a 160 gr pill out their 22" barrel test gun.

With a shorter barrel, I know I'll lose some speed and my .280 is never gonna be a 7mm mag. lol

That same Sierra flyer also list 2,900 fps for 150 gr bullet.

I'm about to work up a load for elk hunting and am trying to figure my upper limit on speed to help guide my bullet selection. I realize I may find a lower velocity than the maximum yielding more accurate results for my chosen powder and bullet selection.

Due to the lower velocities from my setup, I wonder if I might be better served by older bullet designs, like the Grand Slam, Partition, Core Lokt over the fancier new designs as they seem to be intended for magnum velocities?

Thanks!

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[sneakypete]

What about a Berger VDL hunting Bullit.

 

[Tim McCoy]

I chronographed my 280 with a 145LRX out of my 24" tube at an average MV of 3,013. Use it for everything. Barnes does rate it for elk. Suspect in a 280 2" will cost a guy 50-80 fps. 2,700 sounds slow for a 160 grain bullet, I'd expect to get closer to 2,800. But every gun is different and its best to follow the recipe in the manual and let the velocity fall where it may.

As far as bullet selection, just depends on how far your max range will be. The LRX bullet I use is designed to expand to about 1,600 fps. Some of the more traditional designs, like the partition, take 1,900-2,000 fps to reliably expand, iirc. I think it is more about the bullet's design than when it was designed, as many of the newer LR bullets are actually designed to expand reliably at lower velocites than some older designs. As a result, some complain they are too soft up close, which is one reason for my settling on the LRX besides it's accuracy. Several other bullets shot better, but this one shot good enough, .6 moa, and offered the promise of better terminal ballistics IMO. I'd have been happy with a 160 AB or a 154 IB or a 150 Scirocco or the like too.

 

[Prerylyon]

Yeah, one can over think any of this; but each rifle, caliber, and game animal offers the possibility of tailoring the load to the gun and hunting situation to some extent.

I finally got a chrono a couple years back, but haven't gotten out to play with it very much, aside from checking some muzzle loader velocities over a year ago. Pretty cool to have a means to measure the velocities.

I have some leftover 140 grain loads using Sierra Gameking HPBT and Accurate 4350 that dropped a mulie for me a few yrs back, that I need to chrono. They shot very well, showed no pressure signs. I need to double check my notes, but 53.5 grains of powder rings a bell.

Curious as to what I was really getting for speed out of those. That should help give a sense of what to expect as a ballpark.

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[Tim McCoy]

Probably a good idea to check it. Sucks to wonder... Then compare what the chrono says to what the manual said it should be, with a little adjustment for any barrel length differences. Would give a guy an idea if he had a "fast" or "slow" barrel vs the expected fps in the manual. Then apply a little Kentucky windage to the manual to get an idea of what a 160 would do...

Never knew a rifle loony or serious hunter to overthink things, lol.

 

[mcseal2]

The 280 I had was a Ruger M77 with a 22" barrel. I got 2700fps with a 160gr Accubond. I'd personally go lighter on bullet to get more speed with that rifle. I've had good performance on game up to elk with the 140gr Accubond in various calibers. My 270 win pushed it at 2950fps. The 150gr Swift Sirocco or 145gr Barnes mentioned earlier would be good choices also.

The Partition is never a bad choice either. Some of it's legendary penetration is due to it shedding more of the front mushroom as it penetrates thereby shrinking the frontal surface area and penetrating deeper. The bonded bullets tend to hold more of the big mushroom and penetrate a bit less.

The polymer tipped bonded bullets open faster if anything than the older designs. The bonding process supposedly actually softens the bullet so it expands even more readily. Velocity shouldn't be an issue there. I've got less experience with the all copper ones.

 

[Work2hunt]

My Remington 700 280 is shooting 140gr nosler partitions at about 2950 using RL19 powder with a 24in barrel.

 

[Prerylyon]

I guess this will be my 1st time going after elk, or any animal that big, and I have it drilled into my head that I need stouter bullets than I used for deer-like a 150 or 160 gr.

Granted, its a cow tag, but I've been hunting long enough to know things don't go as planned. No, I won't willingly take a running or otherwise lousy shot, but in that 1/2 second after pulling the trigger an animal can move just enough that your boiler room shot is now punching the edge of a shoulder blade or worse, or your flinch or whatever.

To me, its that holy grail of penetration and shock/energy transfer-ideally there should be both to quickly kill game. No such perfect bullet exists, of course, but within the capabilities of a rifle and shooter, there are likely better choices for the task at hand.

Thanks for all the shared info! I will post my chrono speeds of my 140 gr load and whatever I end up working up, it might be some weeks with the crazy schedule of life, but I have some more ideas now and more numbers to consider.

Regards,

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[Work2hunt]

FWIW I have shot several elk with that load out to 291 yds with no issues. Shot placement is key. Go with what your gum likes best.

 

[Prerylyon]

FWIW I have shot several elk with that load out to 291 yds with no issues. Shot placement is key. Go with what your gum likes best.

Partitions are a proven round. I will be messing with them.

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[Tim McCoy]

I guess this will be my 1st time going after elk, or any animal that big, and I have it drilled into my head that I need stouter bullets than I used for deer-like a 150 or 160 gr.

Granted, its a cow tag, but I've been hunting long enough to know things don't go as planned. No, I won't willingly take a running or otherwise lousy shot, but in that 1/2 second after pulling the trigger an animal can move just enough that your boiler room shot is now punching the edge of a shoulder blade or worse, or your flinch or whatever.

To me, its that holy grail of penetration and shock/energy transfer-ideally there should be both to quickly kill game. No such perfect bullet exists, of course, but within the capabilities of a rifle and shooter, there are likely better choices for the task at hand.

Thanks for all the shared info! I will post my chrono speeds of my 140 gr load and whatever I end up working up, it might be some weeks with the crazy schedule of life, but I have some more ideas now and more numbers to consider.

Regards,

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A stouter bullet for elk is not a bad idea at all, but that does not necessiarily mean a heavier one. If you can't drive a 160 fast enough to reliably expand for your max range, a 140-150 gr. bullet is probably a better idea in a 280 imo. A 140 in .284 has a decent SD of .248, identical to a 165 in .308. Use a monolithic, bonded or partition design and dead elk ensue even with some bone contact. My son put a 115 Nosler BT through a big cow at 75 yards, nicked a rib going in and out. That bullet has a SD of .249.

Generally, a SD of around .250 and above, with regular hunting bullets, will give good penetration from standard cartridges. They work even better if monolithic, bonded or partitioned IMO. The key is placing a good bullet from an elk capable cartridge very very well. The grenade style like Bergers, from what I understand, perform best when heavy for caliber, but I have not tried one.

 

[mcseal2]

I've taken an elk with the 270 win and a 140gr AB started at 2950fps at 614yds. Through my 264WM at 3000fps I took my best muley with the 140gr AB. I shot him at 180yds and the bullet hit in front of the hip and lodged under the hide on the offside of the neck. Through a 270WSM with the 140gr AB at 3033fps I finished another muley for a hunter who hit one poorly at 400yds at a similar angle found it under the hide in the neck. The list goes on but those are the ones that stand out. The rest were normal broadside shots where it exited and the critter died. I wouldn't be afraid to use the 140gr AB or PT from your 280 for elk.

 

[7mag]

With my experience it doesnt matter what bullet you shoot them with as much as to where you shoot them. The fastest ive dropped an elk was a cow at 75 yards with a 243. It was a straight on shot with a 100 gr core lockt delivered in the nose. The longest i have had track one down was with a 162 grain SST out of a 7 mag that barely clipped 1 lung. Waiting for the right shot and staying within the effective range of my rifle and how i can shoot it has helped me the most hunting.