2018 Kansas Draw

[HighPlainsHunter]

I had a family trip planned to Oklahoma this fall and we had been looking forward to hunting an familiar area in Kansas on the way down. Somehow I managed to not draw my tag for unit 2 which really surprised me as there were 466 tags issued last year and only 375 first choice apps, and I had hunted in the past and always drawn. This year there were also 466 tags but I was unsuccessful.

I just figured there must have been a huge jump in applications for that unit which combined with my terrible luck equaled no tag. But still I had to change plans for this trip which torqed me off so I decided to contact the KDWP since they had not posted the draw numbers yet, which is previously done shortly after the draw. They acted very strange/evasive when I asked about the draw and would not tell me when those draw numbers would be released but also were adamant that I send my $100 hunting license in for a full refund.

Few weeks later I was browsing a thread on another archery forum and ran across a few guys who were also discussing not drawing tags in Kansas for unit that was 100% last year. These were were unit 9 and two different guys had not drawn which was really odd as there are 981 tags for 939 first choice applicants last year and also 981 tags this year. The odds of two different guys not drawing that tag are really low.

I have also ran across an issue where Kansas issued an extra 3,200 buck tags to NR"s in 2016 and I know occasionally mistakes happen in these draws.

So anyone here not draw a tag in Kansas this year?

 

[tdcour]

Some of my family members from out of state drew out this year. Nothing out of the norm for them this year. It's a 70-80% draw and they've drawn the last three years. So, not much help here, but I haven't heard anything to be honest. Does sound strange though.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

Now have quite a few folks in 2, 9, and possibly 15 which were all 100% draw last year and this year did not draw.

Also appears there was confusion over the license portion as some were required to purchase a license to apply and some were not. Now if you paid for a license and did not draw they are giving refunds.

Now that I know there was a screw up in 2016, and a screw up this year on licenses, I'm starting to wonder if this draw was done correctly as there sure are a lot of guys out there wondering what happened on the draw for units that were 100% last year.

 

[tdcour]

thats a good point you make there. I helped my uncle and cousin apply as NR and it said they had to purchase a license to enter the draw. We didn't purchase one and just did it like we did the past several years. They drew and will need to buy a license like the last couple years. Weird... wonder if it was just certain units...

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

thats a good point you make there. I helped my uncle and cousin apply as NR and it said they had to purchase a license to enter the draw. We didn't purchase one and just did it like we did the past several years. They drew and will need to buy a license like the last couple years. Weird... wonder if it was just certain units...

I wonder as well. Probably ultimately a software or computer problem like the 2016 issue where 3,200 NR's received an extra buck tag by accident. Sounds like they are trying to fix this most recent situation but I have not seen my refund as of yet. Been right at a month since I mailed a letter per their instructions to get a refund.

I send them a message on the facebook page to see if there was an issue with the draw and when the draw numbers were going to be released. If/when I get a response I will post it here.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

The KDWP facebook page refuses to answer my question if there was a problem withe the 2018 draw and they have always been good about answering. So I decided to call. Spent 20 minutes on hold before getting through to Cory. He acted like everything was fine with the 2018 draw but when I mentioned the license issue he started getting evasive and ultimately kept trying to explain that second and thirds choice apps could have an effect on first choice applicants getting a tag, which caused my jaw to hit the floor as that is a direct contradiction to the answer I was given earlier but the KDWP facebook page.
"The Kansas nonresident deer draw is a random computer draw, drawing applicants with preference points first. If you did not draw, that means that there were more applications than permits allotted. It's not uncommon for demand to change from year to year. If you purchased a hunting license when you applied and do not plan on using it, you can mail the license back to: KDWPT, Licensing Section, 512 SE 25th Ave., Pratt, KS 67124 for a refund."

I asked him for further explanation and he then said he was more of a fishing guy and didn't know specifics on the deer draw.

In the end I don't know what the heck is going on down there as it's been months since the draw and they refuse to post the 2018 numbers. When asked they always say it's going to be a few more weeks. There are over a dozen guys just on 3 forums who had unit 2, 9, or 15 as first choice and did not draw for some reason even though they were 100% last year. And we know there was an issue with requiring a hunting license this year and that an issue in 2016 resulted in 3,200 extra deer tags being given. Everyone just wants an explanation and to see the numbers. Hopefully they will do so shortly.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

Well there was definitely an issue with the draw in Kansas this year. Here are the numbers.
https://ksoutdoors.com/Services/Publications/Hunting/2018-Statistics-Deer-Nonresident-Draw


If you had unit 2 or unit 9 as a first choice and did not draw it makes no sense.

Unit 2 466 tags, 390 first choice applications. Yet I and numerous others did not draw with unit 2 as first choice.

Unit 9 had 981 tags , 961 first choice apps. Yet some people who had unit 9 as first choice did not draw.

Unit 16 was close, 1405 people drew tags and 10 didn't, so if you did not draw in unit 15 you either have really bad luck or there is something else going on.

I knew something was not right about this draw and now it has been confirmed.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

Well after discussing this on several other forums it appears Kansas has a shall we say "unique" way of drawing tags.

Apparently Kansas starts with those who have the most preference points and works their way to those who have no preference points and then randomly draws names. Then the hunters first choice is reviewed, if there are tags available he is awarded. If no tags are available in those units they go to his second choice, if tags are available he is awarded. If no tags are available then they go to his third choice, if tags are available he is awarded.

So essentially the numbers posted for 2018 Kansas Deer Stats do not reflect the chances of drawing a tag in those units as they are only showing us first choice applications. I'm really not sure what the numbers posted can be used for but I can say for sure that they can't be used to determine the chance of drawing a tag since only first choice applicants are shown and second/third choice of some will have preference over others first choice.

All I can say after this is I am glad other states do not do it's tags like this where in the zero PP pool one guy's third choice gets preference over anothers first choice. And I am glad other states draw odds that are posted represent the actual chance of drawing a tag as that makes the data much more useful.

I can't even begin to imagine how people would feel if Wyoming allowed a third choice of one hunter to take precedent over another's first choice when it came to drawing a tag. That would be pure insanity at draw time, but apparently it's business as usual in Kansas. Going in order of 1st choice of everyone seems to be more fair IMO.

Odds of drawing a unit in Kansas? Even KDWP has no idea using the numbers they posted which are essentially useless and do not represent the chances of drawing a tag.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

Here is the explanation from KDWP on how they do the draw.
The issue isn't with the drawing, it's with the explanation of the draw stats, or lack of. The draw stats only list first choices, but that doesn't explain how the computer drawing works. The computer randomly draws an application, those with preference points first. It then processes that entire application before drawing another. Each applicant can make up to four unit selections, each with an additional adjacent unit. A permit is issued if the there are permits left in the unit of first selection. However, if the first selected unit is full, it drops to the second selection on the application. So, for example, if the applicant's first selection was Unit 3 and it was full when drawn, the second selection pops up. If applicant's second selection was Unit 2 with Unit 3 as the adjacent unit and there were still permits left in Unit 2, it was awarded. Unit two is adjacent to two units, 3 and 4 that had more first-choice applications than permits available. At least 76 of those applicants selected Unit 2 as one of their choices and their applications were selected in the drawing before yours. So, there were more applications with Unit 2 selected than permits allotted, just not more with Unit 2 as their first selection. If you had made a second selection of Unit 17, which had leftover permits, with Unit 2 as the adjacent unit, you would have a permit that allows you to hunt in Unit 2. I know this is confusing and I am planning on putting an explanation on the Draw Stats page. Call me if you have further questions - 620-672-0765. Mike

What does the MRS say about Kansas?

 

[Team Kabob]

Dad pulled a eastern Kansas tag just fine. Must be people buying points that can?t hunt one year(or couple) than all in the next! Most parts of KS has good odds to pull a tags for NR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DH56]

I agree- every year I applied, I drew on the eastern side.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

Most parts of KS has good odds to pull a tags for NR


k

The reality is we have no idea what the odds are to draw a tag for NR's in Kansas. Without knowing how many second, third, and fourth choice apps there are we have no idea what the chances of drawing a tag are. Gotta be one of the only states where draw odds are not shared.

Also leads to some bizarre circumstances where a guys 4th choice has preference over anothers first choice.

Mine was really bizarre as I did not draw a tag with unit 2 as a first choice, but I could have gotten a tag for unit 2 in the leftover by choosing unit 17 as my primary unit with 2 as secondary.

Kansas is the only state I am aware of where you have no idea what NR draw odds are for any unit, and you can not draw a unit as first choice, but purchase a tag for the same unit as a leftover.

Only in Kansas. LOL.

I don't have an old Eastmans around as I 'd be curious to see what they say about Kansas as nobody on here seemed to be aware how the draw was done which surprised me.

 

[Team Kabob]

I?m a resident and don?t have to draw. Sounds like you got a rare deal. I can only speak for putting family in and have had no problems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Team Kabob]

On a side note, Missouri is over the counter and some good public land.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fink]

On a side note, Missouri is over the counter and some good public land.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lies! We have very few deers, and none of them are on public land!

 

[Team Kabob]

Lies! We have very few deers, and none of them are on public land!

Haha!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk